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Call or fold?

JONONZIEJONONZIE
edited May 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Definatly a crying call as you have put so much in the middle, nit picking you should of raised more on the flop, somewhere in the region of about 520 and then shove all in on what looks like a blank turn. I think after putting 1380 in the middle you cant fold for another 600 after hitting top pair top kicker.
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Comments

  • JONONZIEJONONZIE
    edited May 2010


      had this hand today thought i played it well untill the all in raise and call do i call or fold ?

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceatlantis73 Small blind  15.00 15.00 2710.00 mogsy1957 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2030.00   Your hole cards A Q       JONONZIE Raise  90.00 135.00 2300.00 ty2gud4u Call  90.00 225.00 1880.00 paulsmcc Fold     atlantis73 Call  75.00 300.00 2635.00 mogsy1957 Call  60.00 360.00 1970.00 Flop    4 6 Q       atlantis73 Check     mogsy1957 Bet  180.00 540.00 1790.00 JONONZIE Raise  390.00 930.00 1910.00 ty2gud4u Call  390.00 1320.00 1490.00 atlantis73 Fold     mogsy1957 Call  210.00 1530.00 1580.00 Turn    8       mogsy1957 Check     JONONZIE Bet  900.00 2430.00 1010.00 ty2gud4u All-in  1490.00 3920.00 0.00 mogsy1957 Call  1490.00 5410.00 90.00 JONONZIE      mogsy1957 Show     ty2gud4u Show    River             
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited May 2010
    as soon as you bet the turn you have to call his all in as you're getting like 8:1 or something ridiculous like that. however i would raise more on the flop, about 550ish and shove turn 
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited May 2010
    For me? Horrible, horrible position... I still think you may have to fold it though. Unless he's a terrible player, he HAS to have you beat to go allin with your bet, since there's zero room to make you fold. The 8 is innocuous enough, but there is a straight completed there, and fairly sizeable chance someone has 2 pair or a set. You may have a strong kicker, but ultimately you have 1 pair- top pair it may be, but there's dozens of hands beating you. Against a single allin, you might be ahead.... Against 2 I'm 90% sure I'm behind, and you don't have many outs- against 2 pair, you could hit an A or a Q. Against a set, you're buried. Against a straight, you're buried. And even if they only have a flush draw, you're buried if it hits.

    It's a horrible one to fold since you have so much invested, but I think lack of outs means it's doable... you were extremely unlucky the way it's played out though. Because of how little it is to call, I don't think you could be blamed for it...
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  • Eagle26Eagle26
    edited May 2010

    you are gettin offered ridiculous odds to make the call. however what good are odds if your beaten?? you still have 1k back and the blinds are still really low. so foldin here isnt such a bad thing although im sure im gonna get crucified for sayin it! you should have definatly bet more on the flop however, and prob shoved the turn....
    however as played i think i fold this even though the pot odds your gettin suggest a call, because your almost certainly beaten.

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  • JONONZIEJONONZIE
    edited May 2010

    Thanks for the input this is clearly a difficult decision I have put so many chips into the pot plus the potential implied odds if I win its almost a mandatory call but then you think two all ins I must be behind so best to get out whilst I still have chips to play with and the blind are relatively low I guessed two pair or trips, as it turned out I got timed out and my cards were mucked but here is the hand played out and what the other players were playing with!!

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    atlantis73 Small blind  15.00 15.00 2710.00
    mogsy1957 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2030.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
    		     
    JONONZIE Raise  90.00 135.00 2300.00
    ty2gud4u Call  90.00 225.00 1880.00
    paulsmcc Fold     
    atlantis73 Call  75.00 300.00 2635.00
    mogsy1957 Call  60.00 360.00 1970.00
    Flop
       
    • 4
    • 6
    • Q
    		     
    atlantis73 Check     
    mogsy1957 Bet  180.00 540.00 1790.00
    JONONZIE Raise  390.00 930.00 1910.00
    ty2gud4u Call  390.00 1320.00 1490.00
    atlantis73 Fold     
    mogsy1957 Call  210.00 1530.00 1580.00
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    mogsy1957 Check     
    JONONZIE Bet  900.00 2430.00 1010.00
    ty2gud4u All-in  1490.00 3920.00 0.00
    mogsy1957 Call  1490.00 5410.00 90.00
    JONONZIE Fold     
    mogsy1957 Show
    • 5
    • 3
    		   
    ty2gud4u Show
    • Q
    • 9
    		   
    River
       
    • 5
    		     
    ty2gud4u Win Pair of Queens
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited May 2010
    Ouch nasty fold in the end. As other have said, im feeling pot commited 8-1 on my money and im putting it in on anything beating bottom pair. In this instance you would have won unfortunetly i think the 2 opponents thing may have got in your way here.
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited May 2010
    Raise flop more you physically cant fold turn for that many chips.
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  • Ms_ChipsMs_Chips
    edited May 2010
    Hi Jon, You need to pay close attention to the table im assuming 10/20 blinds as already been round the board. You should be recognising who is calling and who is folding. You've raised 3xbb and been called in 3 spots. You should then make it 5x plus limpers(The pot winner with 5 high has flatted your utg raise with 53 from MP) this should have been picked up on. Secondly you need to 3 bet more on the flop and 'really' put the choice back to to him. He either folds, shoves or flats. Shove the turn if flatted. The fold at the end is just down right crazy. Every street is so wrong Jon. I hate to be brutal but I hope it helps.

    Ilona. x

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  • JONONZIEJONONZIE
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    Hi Jon, You need to pay close attention to the table im assuming 10/20 blinds as already been round the board. You should be recognising who is calling and who is folding. You've raised 3xbb and been called in 3 spots. You should then make it 5x plus limpers(The pot winner with 5 high has flatted your utg raise with 53 from MP) this should have been picked up on. Secondly you need to 3 bet more on the flop and 'really' put the choice back to to him. He either folds, shoves or flats. Shove the turn if flatted. The fold at the end is just down right crazy. Every street is so wrong Jon. I hate to be brutal but I hope it helps. Ilona. x
    Posted by Ms_Chips
    Thank you Mrs. C for taking the time to give some advice  being UG and 5 players to act after me  I opted for the standard 3X  blind no chance to 3 bet here as all called the two callers being the most loose at this stage, now I'm a bit confused when you say I should then have bet 5X plus limpers 5X what ? big blind or the pot, after the flop I was mp so after the first player bet (mogsy) I re-raised and again got two callers so could not 3 bet here although the consensus indicates I should have raised  more than I did, the turn, first to bet (mogsy )checked showing weakness and so I bet 900 two thirds the pot  then get re-raised all in which is immediately called by the BB (mogsy) who previously checked so I thought he could be trapping with possibly trips that's why I took so long trying to work it outt but was going for the call,but I got timed out  the winner was not the 53 (mogsy) but the Q 9 I would be most grateful if you could explain again what you are trying to say.
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  • Ms_ChipsMs_Chips
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : Thank you Mrs. C for taking the time to give some advice  being UG and 5 players to act after me  I opted for the standard 3X  blind no chance to 3 bet here as all called the two callers being the most loose at this stage, now I'm a bit confused when you say I should then have bet 5 X plus limpers 5X what ? big blind or the pot, after the flop I was mp so after the first player bet (mogsy) I re-raised and again got two callers so could not 3 bet here although the consensus indicates I should have raised  more than I did, the turn, first to bet (mogsy )checked showing weakness and so I bet 900 two thirds the pot  then get re-raised all in which is immediately called by the BB (mogsy) who previously checked so I thought he could be trapping with possibly trips that's why I took so long trying to work it outt but was going for the call, but I got timed ou t  the winner was not the 53 (mogsy) but the Q 9 I would be most grateful if you could explain again what you are trying to say.
    Posted by JONONZIE

    Hi Jon, forgive me for getting past the 1st paragraph but 3xbb means 3 x big bling please read on from my post with this info. I have not mentioned as i dont think it concearns you haha sorry but my own personal joke(the big 3bet)
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  • JONONZIEJONONZIE
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : Hi Jon, forgive me for getting past the 1st paragraph but 3xbb means 3 x big bling please read on from my post with this info. I have not mentioned as i dont think it concearns you haha sorry but my own personal joke(the big 3bet)
    Posted by Ms_Chips
    Thank you Mrs C like my poker its as clear as mud
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