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Slowplaying aces pre flop

edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
I had some discussion with dohhhhh about this hand.

What do people think, I will rarely just call with aces but I thought dohh would fire a couple of times on any board and thought that would get me more in the long run. 

At the start of the hand, it wasnt really my plan to get it in on the turn, but the board started scaring me and I lost my bottle.

Was the donk bet bad or should I be check raising there..

Any advice and analysis appreciated
OMahonyO Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £29.01
handsumjon Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £21.66
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • A
     
thing50 Fold     
bego66 Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £0.80 £1.10 £19.07
donnyjoe Fold     
OMahonyO Call  £0.70 £1.80 £28.31
handsumjon Call  £0.60 £2.40 £21.06
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 8
  • J
     
OMahonyO Bet  £1.80 £4.20 £26.51
handsumjon Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £4.80 £9.00 £14.27
OMahonyO All-in  £26.51 £35.51 £0.00
DOHHHHHHH Fold     
OMahonyO Muck     
OMahonyO Win  £11.40  £11.40
OMahonyO Return  £23.51 £0.60 £34.91
«1

Comments

  • edited May 2010
    i dont like the flat call pre, the guy behind you BB is always gonna call and why do wanna play AA 3 way?
    you dont and never do.  you are also OOP witch makes the hand so hard to play.
    my advice for what its worth, you can slow play AA.  you open on the button and get 3 bet by blinds or early pos limper, then in this spot you can flat the 3 bet as i will hide the strenth of your hand.
    most important thing is pos an get it HU.
  • edited May 2010
    For me i'm not a big fan of the flat call pre flop with the aces.

    I think there are a some factors to consider when calling with big hands pre flop, sort of a checklist to meet in terms of the hand, only if i had most if not all of them would i flat call pre.

    Firstly i believe you would need to be in position to flat call with such a big hand as i really don't like to play any hand out of position especially with another player to act behind. If that was me i'd be raising pre and running the risk of taking down a smaller pot right away.

    Also i think i'd like to know that i'm are against a player of equal or less ability, i don't mind seeing more flops with players of a lower ability than myself but against a player of higher ability i'm all for trying to take the pot away pre-flop or getting more of his stack when you can pretty much guarantee he's behind.

    Post flop i've got no problem with the lead out and to be honest i believe it helped you get some more money from a pretty tricky spot against someone like dohhh ( a bit results orientated but oh well!)

    That's what i reckon anyway, feel free to agree or disagree guys!
  • edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    For me i'm not a big fan of the flat call pre flop with the aces. I think there are a some factors to consider when calling with big hands pre flop, sort of a checklist to meet in terms of the hand, only if i had most if not all of them would i flat call pre. Firstly i believe you would need to be in position to flat call with such a big hand as i really don't like to play any hand out of position especially with another player to act behind. If that was me i'd be raising pre and running the risk of taking down a smaller pot right away. Also i think i'd like to know that i'm are against a player of equal or less ability, i don't mind seeing more flops with players of a lower ability than myself but against a player of higher ability i'm all for trying to take the pot away pre-flop or getting more of his stack when you can pretty much guarantee he's behind. Post flop i've got no problem with the lead out and to be honest i believe it helped you get some more money from a pretty tricky spot against someone like dohhh ( a bit results orientated but oh well!) That's what i reckon anyway, feel free to agree or disagree guys!
    Posted by kirstii

    There are better hands than aces ?
  • edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : There are better hands than aces ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    No but there are four aces in a deck,he could have the other two, honestly some people.
  • edited May 2010

    I didnt like it :(
  • edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    I didnt like it :(
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Fancy revealing what you had? A jack?
  • edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    i dont like the flat call pre, the guy behind you BB is always gonna call and why do wanna play AA 3 way? you dont and never do.  you are also OOP witch makes the hand so hard to play. my advice for what its worth, you can slow play AA.  you open on the button and get 3 bet by blinds or early pos limper, then in this spot you can flat the 3 bet as i will hide the strenth of your hand. most important thing is pos an get it HU.
    Posted by freechips1
    +1

    What an opportunity to stack DOHHHHHHH wasted
  • edited May 2010
    dont slow play aces full stop
  • edited May 2010
    ok sometimes better to take the blinds than 3 or 4 callers one of them ends up stacking you
  • edited June 2010
    Why do you lead the flop once you flatted pre?
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    Why do you lead the flop once you flatted pre?
    Posted by beaneh

    Because, the guy behind me was  in and although I was risking it going 3 way, it wasnt definite.  Also, with it being 3 way, doh is more likely to check behind if myself and other person checked first.

    Also, if doh did have a piece of it, and he was checked to, he would be making a cbet of prob the same as me , £1.80.  If I were to come over the top, he would likely be laying it down I thought.  Making my won pot smaller.

    I also thought that if I led out and he had a piece of it, his raise would have to be quite large , making it a bigger pot for me when I come over the top.

    Lastly, I didnt like that flop much, way to drawy and I did not want to be giving any free cards.

    Is this bad, or should I just be checkraising?
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : Because, the guy behind me was  in and although I was risking it going 3 way, it wasnt definite.  Also, with it being 3 way, doh is more likely to check behind if myself and other person checked first.
     also thought that if I led out and he had a piece of it, his raise would have to be quite large , making it a bigger pot for me when I come over the top. Lastly, I didnt like that flop much, way to drawy and I did not want to be giving any free cards. Is this bad, or should I just be checkraising?
    Posted by OMahonyO

    Excellent reasoning, just make it bigger on the flop because the hands that you are going to be leading here either require fold equity or want to build the pot because you have a monster. Also consider what other hands you do/could start to lead with in this spot. Also think how the skill level and tendencies of the other player in the pot other than the pre-flop raiser should affect your decision.
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    i dont like the flat call pre, the guy behind you BB is always gonna call and why do wanna play AA 3 way?
    Posted by freechips1
    +1


    You obviously know doh's game quite well to want to flat him However Like freechips states you whole focus should be on the BB.  You say you don't know for certain if he is coming along which means you have to 3bet, however if the guys folds the bb all the time and is a complete nit then party on.

    I have a sneaky suspicion that you would have won more with a 3bet here.
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    ten ten
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Why did you raise fold?
  • edited June 2010

    I raised to make him fold and found out I couldn't possibly be winning so I had to fold. myself. D'ohh !!!
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    I raised to make him fold and found out I couldn't possibly be winning so I had to fold. myself. D'ohh !!!
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    eh? you raised to make him fold what? what do you think that he is leading with?

    raise folding is the worst thing possible if he leads a draw or pair and a straight draw and then you raise and fold you are making a colossal mistake. 
  • edited June 2010

    Well I make at least 300 colossal mistakes a session and still do alright.

    Imagine the possibilities eh :)
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    Well I make at least 300 colossal mistakes a session and still do alright. Imagine the possibilities eh :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Surely talking discussing and thinking over situations lets you improve for the future, so rather than saying meh why not try and make 299 colossal mistakes next session ?!
  • edited June 2010

    Right 3 options.

    Call? - no way, Aint calling for a gutshot, this is what I'd be doing if I took this option. 

    Fold? - after raising pre flop, for someone to donk lead into me and expect to take it down? too soft.

    Leaves raise...which I find is normally the answer....

    So I raise....

    Raise call? - Would be the worst call of all time.

    Raise and turn the internet off? - Maybe.....Log back on again and hope it got thru. No?

    Soooo..... Raise fold? yup 

    Whats your point are you saying that if Im raising, i shud be doing so for value?

    Of those 300 times I make a mistake, 275 times I get it through and take the pot.

    This time, he had the goods, wp, nh, move on
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    Right 3 options. Call? - no way, Aint calling for a gutshot, this is what I'd be doing if I took this option.  Fold? - after raising pre flop, for someone to donk lead into me and expect to take it down? too soft. Leaves raise...which I find is normally the answer.... So I raise.... Raise call? - Would be the worst call of all time. Raise and turn the internet off? - Maybe.....Log back on again and hope it got thru. No? Soooo..... Raise fold? yup  Whats your point are you saying that if Im raising, i shud be doing so for value? Of those 300 times I make a mistake, 275 times I get it through and take the pot. This time, he had the goods, wp, nh, move on
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    I'm off out now but i'll send you a pm later.
  • edited June 2010
    beaneh is basically saying you're turning 1010 into a bluff by raise/folding DUCY?
  • edited June 2010

    Well yeh im deffo not raising with the intention of getting the money all in as I feel I have the best hand?

    I just want him to fold, what other option do I have in that situation other than fold?


  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    Well yeh im deffo not raising with the intention of getting the money all in as I feel I have the best hand? I just want him to fold, what other option do I have in that situation other than fold?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    call and play poker....
  • edited June 2010
    as it transpires, it was a good fold.
  • edited June 2010

    call and play bingo? hope for a 9?
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    call and play bingo? hope for a 9?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    what happens if he leads out when he hits a flush draw or a straight draw or bottom pair?! and in position we just raise fold our made hand?? 



  • edited June 2010
    I ink its a pretty simple hand to play for the pkt tens point of view.

    Ive raised pre in position with a good starting hand 6 handed. 

    Ive used my position to ask a question on the flop, and been given the answer that my opponent has a strong enough hand to put all his money in, therefore I cant be good and its an easy fold?

    Where's the mistake there?

    I call....ok, why am I calling? The board is horrid for tens, I have 4 outs, if they miss, he leads again, Ive paid £1.80 just to fold the turn.

    I'll keep raising there neway - another thing we will disagree forever on :)

  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    i dont like the flat call pre, the guy behind you BB is always gonna call and why do wanna play AA 3 way? you dont and never do.  you are also OOP witch makes the hand so hard to play. my advice for what its worth, you can slow play AA.  you open on the button and get 3 bet by blinds or early pos limper, then in this spot you can flat the 3 bet as i will hide the strenth of your hand. most important thing is pos an get it HU.
    Posted by freechips1


    I have to disagree with this.  From my experience, the bb is not always calling here, and as Ms Chips said, I certainly do not think only complete nits fold here.
    I do understand what you are saying though about not wanting it to go 3 way, and I didnt.  Howver, I thought it was worth the risk at the time as I felt that the benefit of disguising my hand outweighed the disadvantage of the possibility of the hand going 3 way.  As I said before, I hardly ever make this play.  Is it so bad to mix it up a bit even if it means you are taking more of a risk from time to time.
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop:
    In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : +1 What an opportunity to stack DOHHHHHHH wasted
    Posted by dylan12
    I dont know if you are just tryin to wind up doh, but I dont reckon he is stacking off here with tens
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