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Three Things I Hate About Satelite Poker
1. Shovemonkeys
2. Slow Play Collusion
3. Blowing Up The Bubble
Shovemonkeys
For the first 3 or 4 levels of a satelite to tourny, this is one thing that winds me up the most, you put your bet in and a player after you shoves all in, next decent hand you get you go for the 3 or 4 x BB raise, but still one or even two player after you shove all in again forcing you to fold. So for the first 3 or 4 levels there is not much skilled poker involved and your only hope of survival is the fold button, until all the shovemonkeys have left the building.
Slow Play Collusion
There seems to be an unwritten law that when you are down to the bubble in a satelite or the last two tables, that the best form of play here is to fold to everyone in front of you until the bubble bursts on the other table. Not a word is said in the chatbox, however everyone seems to understand this unwritten law that slow play and folding to those after you is good etiquette. I presume the whole idea of this type of play is to ensure that bubbleboy on the other table goes out first. But I can't help thinking that this may be some type of mass collusion, however, it can only be collusion if two or more players agree to work together with a specific aim. (In this case playing slow and folding until the bubble bursts on the other table)
Blowing Up The Bubble
Again this seems to happen when you are down to the bubble. Slow play and folding as I mentioned above is happening on both tables, however, on the other table, everyone folds to bubbleboy, keeping his hopes of sateliting into the main event alive (This I call "Blowing Up The Bubble") Increasing the size of his stack.
The other players have nothing to gain by folding and keeping bubble boy in the game, apart from the satisfaction that it was a player on another table that bubbled first.
I started the touny with only two things in mind, "Me Against Them" and "Survival" However, when we reach the the last two tables or the bubble, everything changes, there seems to be a group division going on, "Our Table" versus "Their Table"
Each of the topics I have mentioned above seam to relate to "Survival". The "Shovemonkey" is a form of attack which some use to survive. The "Slow Play Collusion" seems to be some a form of defence which some use for survival and "Blowing up the Bubble" seams to be a way of helping a wounded comrad, thus keeping the group strong which in turn helps survival.
So My question is this:
Are we seeing some kind of basic survival instinct goin on which seems to go back to the days of the dinosaurs or is there some other reason why this type of play seems to be emerging in online poker?
Has anyone else noticed this? or Am I completely going of my Trolley? (Do not answer the later)
2. Slow Play Collusion
3. Blowing Up The Bubble
Shovemonkeys
For the first 3 or 4 levels of a satelite to tourny, this is one thing that winds me up the most, you put your bet in and a player after you shoves all in, next decent hand you get you go for the 3 or 4 x BB raise, but still one or even two player after you shove all in again forcing you to fold. So for the first 3 or 4 levels there is not much skilled poker involved and your only hope of survival is the fold button, until all the shovemonkeys have left the building.
Slow Play Collusion
There seems to be an unwritten law that when you are down to the bubble in a satelite or the last two tables, that the best form of play here is to fold to everyone in front of you until the bubble bursts on the other table. Not a word is said in the chatbox, however everyone seems to understand this unwritten law that slow play and folding to those after you is good etiquette. I presume the whole idea of this type of play is to ensure that bubbleboy on the other table goes out first. But I can't help thinking that this may be some type of mass collusion, however, it can only be collusion if two or more players agree to work together with a specific aim. (In this case playing slow and folding until the bubble bursts on the other table)
Blowing Up The Bubble
Again this seems to happen when you are down to the bubble. Slow play and folding as I mentioned above is happening on both tables, however, on the other table, everyone folds to bubbleboy, keeping his hopes of sateliting into the main event alive (This I call "Blowing Up The Bubble") Increasing the size of his stack.
The other players have nothing to gain by folding and keeping bubble boy in the game, apart from the satisfaction that it was a player on another table that bubbled first.
I started the touny with only two things in mind, "Me Against Them" and "Survival" However, when we reach the the last two tables or the bubble, everything changes, there seems to be a group division going on, "Our Table" versus "Their Table"
Each of the topics I have mentioned above seam to relate to "Survival". The "Shovemonkey" is a form of attack which some use to survive. The "Slow Play Collusion" seems to be some a form of defence which some use for survival and "Blowing up the Bubble" seams to be a way of helping a wounded comrad, thus keeping the group strong which in turn helps survival.
So My question is this:
Are we seeing some kind of basic survival instinct goin on which seems to go back to the days of the dinosaurs or is there some other reason why this type of play seems to be emerging in online poker?
Has anyone else noticed this? or Am I completely going of my Trolley? (Do not answer the later)
Comments
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3 SkyMod1
I love you Trev!
sky mod 1
sky mod 2
sky mod 3
But what makes one table play against another? why do we care who bubbles? We somehow seem to try and protect the players on our table, which somehow feels so wrong but right at the same time.
It must be our animal instinct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoOjtNs9EOk
Reasons to be Cheerful.....
Dinosaurs were extinct around 65 million years before the first of us h0mo sapiens (yes, that includes Tikay) walked the earth.
Good post though, it's hilarious on the bubble when all of a sudden nearly every short/medium stacked player starts letting the clock run nearly all the way down on all decisons, and you just know they're watching the other other table on mini-view and yelling 'shove it!', 'call it!' etc at the screen.
But I know the rest to be true lol.
Hi trev
shove monkeys as you call them, first, there is the beginner someone (like my wife) who is not sure how to play a hand and so if they have two reasonable cards and get raised will just chuck them all in rather than try to play them, (this is actually recommended by “dan Harrington on poker” for inexperienced players although it is in the heads up section I think it still applies, then there are the other type of player that you may not like i.e. the draw chaser , the fish, the bet and hope, the egotistical guy who will raise just because you had the nerve to raise him these are all players that are annoying but are part of poker (at this level anyway) and as you know these are the guys (and gals) that we can get chips of f, so using the old cliché “ don’t tap the fish tank” springs to mind. So it’s up to you whether you play theses first few levels knowing that this is the most dangerous time as whatever cards you have and bet you make there will almost certainly be someone who will come along or just chuck it all in, deeper in the game you can start to play the game knowing if you bet 3x the Bb they won’t shove (or will they!!!)
The slow play on the bubble is only natural I do it myself especially in satellites when 20th position is the same as 1 so why would you risk reaching the bubble just because you have a hand? you will find the slower players are the ones who don’t want to go up against a hand as there still at risk whereas the bigger stacks will just fold as normalI wouldn’t call it mass collusion just self preservation as you know when near the bubble the short stacks are in the fold or all in mode so unless you have a huge stack you would be wary of the short stack (even in the wsop most players will muck rather than playing a hand until the bubble boy has gone), they are also waiting for players like you who maybe on another table will bet with a decent holding and take on another big stack and hay presto they have made the bubble.! In a tourney it is bit different and the slow play is not so prevalent except from the short stacks as again, they are in the fold or shove mode I must also point out that you have the time allowed to make your decision and have every right to take that time allowed even if there are lots of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (which I hate) in the chat box!
Finally! blowing up the bubble I can’t think of a time this has happened when i have been playing except when other players fold to the short stack simply to reach the bubble (again the wsop springs to mind) I’m sure you would be aware of your cards before putting the short stack all in knowing when there is nowhere else to go they will push back, In an ideal world you bet 3x blind and everyone goes away but this is what makes poker the game it is, the gonks the idiots, the fish, otherwise we would all be brilliant players, wouldn’t we???
Just a final note the Hand 4 Hand sounds good but when the bubble is 60 that works out 10 tables how long would you have to wait to play a hand again?
2. Altitude
3. Zero gravity
I've played MTTs on another site with hand-to-hand in MTTs with well over 100 places played, the delay at the end of each hand seems to go on forever, it's a big relief when the bubble bursts and you can go back to playing at normal speed.