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did i play this correct?

The_Don90The_Don90
edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Tarkus1212 Small blind  75.00 75.00 1905.00
The_Don90 Big blind  150.00 225.00 1560.00
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
dolfin Fold     
chrissy626 Fold     
phold Call  150.00 375.00 1820.00
thekurgon Fold     
Tarkus1212 Call  75.00 450.00 1830.00
The_Don90 Raise  450.00 900.00 1110.00
phold Call  450.00 1350.00 1370.00
Tarkus1212 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 8
  • Q
  • A
     
The_Don90 Bet  300.00 1650.00 810.00
phold Call  300.00 1950.00 1070.00
Turn
   
  • 5
     
The_Don90 Check     
phold Check     
River
   
  • Q
     
The_Don90 Check     
phold All-in  1070.00 3020.00 0.00
The_Don90 Fold     
phold Muck     
phold Win  1950.00  1950.00
phold Return  1070.00 0.00 3020.00
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Comments

  • beanehbeaneh
    edited June 2010
    Do what his name is! 
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    Get it in pre !
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    Bet on the flop is terrible imo. Why do you bet less on the flop than you do preflop? You open up the door to getting bluff raised, you allow the villain to draw out on you and you will probably get the hand taken away from you on a later street.

    Oh and yea as dudeskin says, just jam pre.
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  • ARR9DINAARR9DINA
    edited June 2010
    TOD19 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £2.50
    ARR9DINA Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £3.90
    MR_N0_NAME Big blind  £0.04 £0.10 £1.56
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • 9
    		     
    ftm73 Call  £0.04 £0.14 £3.88
    1MOG Fold     
    MR_N0_NAME Check     
    Olive Call  £0.04 £0.18 £4.57
    merman Fold     
    jjjach Call  £0.04 £0.22 £3.84
    toddy23 Fold     
    TOD19 Call  £0.02 £0.24 £2.48
    ARR9DINA Check     
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • K
    • Q
    		     
    TOD19 Bet  £0.18 £0.42 £2.30
    ARR9DINA Raise  £0.63 £1.05 £3.27
    ftm73 Fold     
    MR_N0_NAME Fold     
    Olive Fold     
    jjjach Fold     
    TOD19 All-in  £2.30 £3.35 £0.00
    ARR9DINA Call  £1.85 £5.20 £1.42
    TOD19 Show
    • Q
    • Q
    		   
    ARR9DINA Show
    • J
    • 9
    		   
    Turn
       
    • 9
    		     
    River
       
    • 9
    		     
    TOD19 Win Full House, Queens and 9s £4.81  £4.81
    Nextdid i play this ok or was it a bad beat
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    why would you think you didn't play it ok?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    Flopped second nuts and lose ul mate
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  • SmalldogSmalldog
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    TOD19 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £2.50 ARR9DINA Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £3.90 MR_N0_NAME Big blind   £0.04 £0.10 £1.56   Your hole cards J 9       ftm73 Call   £0.04 £0.14 £3.88 1MOG Fold         MR_N0_NAME Check         Olive Call   £0.04 £0.18 £4.57 merman Fold         jjjach Call   £0.04 £0.22 £3.84 toddy23 Fold         TOD19 Call   £0.02 £0.24 £2.48 ARR9DINA Check         Flop     10 K Q       TOD19 Bet   £0.18 £0.42 £2.30 ARR9DINA Raise   £0.63 £1.05 £3.27 ftm73 Fold         MR_N0_NAME Fold         Olive Fold         jjjach Fold         TOD19 All-in   £2.30 £3.35 £0.00 ARR9DINA Call   £1.85 £5.20 £1.42 TOD19 Show Q Q       ARR9DINA Show J 9       Turn     9       River     9       TOD19 Win Full House, Queens and 9s £4.81   £4.81 Prev Close window Next did i play this ok or was it a bad beat
    Posted by ARR9DINA
    u played it fine, just got unlucky! guy with the queens played it badly by just calling pre-flop with multiple players in the hand!
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  • lynx3ffectlynx3ffect
    edited June 2010
    with your stack size this is either check/fold or shove
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  • robcrobc
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    Bet on the flop is terrible imo. Why do you bet less on the flop than you do preflop? You open up the door to getting bluff raised, you allow the villain to draw out on you and you will probably get the hand taken away from you on a later street. Oh and yea as dudeskin says, just jam pre.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    I agree with blackfish here, i really don't like the bet on the flop, keep seeing people bet less on flop than pre flop recently. what was your thinking behind this bet?

    Why jam pre though? surely most of the time they both fold and we don't get much value? i no it only leave you 1.1k left so hard to bet on a flop with a A, but if no A easy to jam the flop and even if they fold you will have a extra 450?

    Not disagreeing just seeing if im missing something lol
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct? : I agree with blackfish here, i really don't like the bet on the flop, keep seeing people bet less on flop than pre flop recently. what was your thinking behind this bet? Why jam pre though? surely most of the time they both fold and we don't get much value? i no it only leave you 1.1k left so hard to bet on a flop with a A, but if no A easy to jam the flop and even if they fold you will have a extra 450? Not disagreeing just seeing if im missing something lol
    Posted by robc
    With aces yes I raise min or more than any flop is safe, but with Kings I'd rather not try playing poker especially with only 10 BB's, get it in pre and pray !
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  • lynx3ffectlynx3ffect
    edited June 2010
    unless u got a read that the guy limp calls with small pp or raggy aces whats the value in shoving in pre? 

    i think its played fine, your raise got u isolated with one oppo which is what you want, when u have 10bb you dont wanna win 1bb with your big hands....worth the risk to get a double up i'd say.
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  • robcrobc
    edited June 2010
    lynx has pretty much summed up what i was going to say by saying, you don't want to win just 1bb with a premium hand when short stacked, no one has shown any aggression pre so most likely outcome is they both fold.

     What do people think about the same raise pre, and jamming any dry flop?

     Thats what i think i would do then any dry flop you have pretty much doubled your stack, maybe more if they hit top pair or something. I just think shoving pre is losing value of such a big hand when were short stacked.
     
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    Alot of my problem with this hand and the reason i hadnt shoved pre is id shoved the previous hand qith Queens. The weaker bet on the flop was because an Ace had shown up and the opponent had been calling raises with weaker aces.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    Jamming might look weaker.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    Jamming might look weaker.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    Which is why i tried the slower played way, id jammed the previous hand which had been queens and mucked, so i suspect as little as an A2 would have called this one.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    ud be surprised... some people seem to just enjoy knocking players out.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    yea i suppose this was a £5 level so not my ideal level of opponents, but far better than 30p level. However to be fair i may be wrong but i had my opponent on QJ the entire hand, so i think checking the turn was my biggest mistake in this hand.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    Why is not your ideal level of opponents at £5?
    And why did you put him on just QJ? Try putting players on a range of hands.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    I really enjoyed the £11 buy in level but my tilt last week destroyed that im on a re-building process.

    Not 100% sure. I was between QJ and AQ. He also checked the turn which takes away AQ as usually id expect a bet there. Possibly even KQ. Once he checked the turn id ruled out the Ace. But the problem was i still had him on a Q which paired
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    I really enjoyed the £11 buy in level but my tilt last week destroyed that im on a re-building process. Not 100% sure. I was between QJ and AQ. He also checked the turn which takes away AQ as usually id expect a bet there. Possibly even KQ. Once he checked the turn id ruled out the Ace. But the problem was i still had him on a Q which paired
    Posted by The_Don90
    You see all this messing around thinking what hand he might or might not have is easily solved by jamming pre, like blackfish said it looks very weak so good chance of being called by AQ / AJ etc then your laughing. But instead that flop comes and you start trying to player poker with less then 10 BB's.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct? : You see all this messing around thinking what hand he might or might not have is easily solved by jamming pre, like blackfish said it looks very weak so good chance of being called by AQ / AJ etc then your laughing. But instead that flop comes and you start trying to player poker with less then 10 BB's.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    As ive stated id shoved the previous hand and mucked queens, which makes a jam here look weak anyways. Also as stated hed been calling with alot raggyer aces than AQ or AJ.
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  • robcrobc
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct? : As ive stated id shoved the previous hand and mucked queens, which makes a jam here look weak anyways. Also as stated hed been calling with alot raggyer aces than AQ or AJ.
    Posted by The_Don90
    I was against a jam pre, but if you had shoved with QQ the hand before and mucked it then that makes me like the jamming pre more. As you just said it would look weak and he would call with rag aces so if thats the case i agree with blackfish and dude a jam pre would probably get called and the best option.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    Ah i never thought of it like that rob. Although id have then still been busted. although at least for next time id have a proper read on my opponent. As i said to Blackfish, looking back i think maybe he had a Q rather than the Ace and my weakness was checking the turn.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    Nah don it's not about the turn, this hand should never get to the turn.
    Someone else said this above but I will repeat it...
    Either shove preflop or play it as you did.
    On the flop either shove or check fold and kick yourself for not shoving pre.

    I like shoving with my monster hands like big PPs because you will be shoving non stop with 10BBs so I dont want to raise with my monsters and shove with my weaker hands. I want to just be shoving with all of them.

    Raising not shoving with a short stack would set off alarm bells to me. And if hes going to call your raise pre then he might even call your shove pre. People seem to call so light.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: did i play this correct?:
    Nah don it's not about the turn, this hand should never get to the turn. Someone else said this above but I will repeat it... Either shove preflop or play it as you did. On the flop either shove or check fold and kick yourself for not shoving pre. I like shoving with my monster hands like big PPs because you will be shoving non stop with 10BBs so I dont want to raise with my monsters and shove with my weaker hands. I want to just be shoving with all of them. Raising not shoving with a short stack would set off alarm bells to me. And if hes going to call your raise pre then he might even call your shove pre. People seem to call so light.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    Totally agree about the 10 bb's shoving range, for me if the spot is right it's any two cards, so in this spot we hav a limper infront of us that creates a pot and might even call off with his Ax. The raise pre is just too risky IMO as you are praying no ace falls, and if it does your down to 7 bb's but more importantly a smaller shoving stack.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited June 2010
    If the ace falls you just have to c bet shove. I dont really get why you raise if your just gona shove any flop anyway. I couldn't give up a pot when i had 7BBs left so i couldn't fold at any point with KK on the flop.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2010
    Thanks guys. Ill just need to add that little bit extra toothless agression to the game.
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