ak on final table with 3 players left

PILLOWMAN

hi everyone, was just reading the thread about ak in the first hand. as a situation recently happened that is still bugging me , i thought id explain and see if you can put my mind at ease. hers what happened. 3 players left. the blionds are 600/1200. player a has 35.000 chips player b has 45.000 chips and i have just over 15.000. player a folds , player b raises 2.400 . i have ak in bb and go allin. player b has qq . i miss and im out. ....... this is what went through my mind before i went allin. i had been sitting with player b on 2 tables and was certain he had a made hand . i correctly put him on a high pair. therefor should i have just called ???  after missing the flop and folding i  would of had 12.400 chips left. any comments are welcome. thanks pillow. 

dowzer

I would shove every time even if I knew the guy had QQ before hand - at that stage with blinds that size you can't fold IMO. Calling is bad in that spot - shove or fold.

PILLOWMAN

hi dowzer , it was the blinds that made me push. what made me doubt my move in hindsight was the correct suspicion he had a high pocket pair. i was thinking that maybe i could of seen  the flop , fold and push with another hand soon after.i know i would probably just get rubbish afterwards but get them in with 2 live cards hopefully. .....  what you cant know , pushing  allin with ak  on ftable does me time and time again. oh well,maybe just run out of luck.thanks dowzer.

mrlogic

all in every time .a,/ he cud b stealin b/.he cud be dominated or c/ its a race but  iv gta  push it in there

dowzer

In Response to Re: ak on final table with 3 players left:

hi dowzer , it was the blinds that made me push. what made me doubt my move in hindsight was the correct suspicion he had a high pocket pair. i was thinking that maybe i could of seen  the flop , fold and push with another hand soon after.i know i would probably just get rubbish afterwards but get them in with 2 live cards hopefully. .....  what you cant know , pushing  allin with ak  on ftable does me time and time again. oh well,maybe just run out of luck.thanks dowzer.
Posted by PILLOWMAN

Three handed with blinds that high (relative to your chip stack) what better hand are you hoping to get and can you afford to wait for it?

He could have been on absolutely anything or have just have been using his stack to bully - as it happens he had a hand (and you called it right!) but you were more or less a 50/50 to double up which then takes you right back into contention. I wouldn't even pause before shoving them in!

At that stage of a tourney you can't afford to be calling off that many chips to see a flop with a drawing hand - its boom or bust, all in or fold

PILLOWMAN

hi mr.logic . i come across plenty of situations  where players have raised with any a or king or even with 62 against me in that situation. in those situations im more then happy with an allin.if i lose ,ok ,no problem. 
 its your option c ,where im not sure. if you , based on the bet size  ,  suspect youre in a race but behind pre flop, would you  still push ?

PILLOWMAN

hi dowzer,the player i was up against had been ultra aggresive .as soon as he spotted weakness ,he would put players with smaller stacks allin. he couldnt of had big hands that often ,i guess. its his small raises , where he had his big hands.thats how i was certain i was up against a big hand.

MrOrange

3 players left. You have just over 10BB (thats pretty much shove or fold time especially because of the big difference between your stack and the other 2 players). You are the one that needs to double up, otherwise the other 2 might just bully you to get to a heads up match. You have to push here, they may even make a loose call if they are a bit over eager to get to the final 2 and then a double up puts you back in contention. You have to go for the win because of how prize pools are structured (top heavy) and you need a double up to do so. The min raise looks weakish so great chance to push and hopefully pick up the blinds and dead money. If they call your shove at least you have all 5 community cards to make your hand. Unlucky you missed but was more or less a coin flip (ish).

OMahonyO

AK 3 handed is massive. Even putting him on QQ, you have to shove as the blinds and his raise are giving you the extra equity you need to make it profitable

PILLOWMAN

hi mr.orange . if the player had made a larger raise or put me allin , i would of been happy to go allin ,even with a lesser hand then ak. i knew it was close to push time . wouldnt wanted to get down to 7/8 b blinds and have 2 callers possibly. would you also go allin , if you  were fairly certain you were up against a made hand?thanks.

PILLOWMAN

omahonyo , thankyou . just had the penny drop . extra equity. yep , that makes sence . thankyou,

PILLOWMAN

thankyou all , now i have my peace of mind back .

YoungUn

All-in>>>>>>>>>>>Fold>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Call

If you call and you miss, you might still be in the tournament, but you might have let soooo many worse hands steal the pot off you. Also, if you hit, QQ is almost never paying you off. A massive part of winning a tournament is being able to win races as to some extent they are completely inevitable. This time you just couldn't cross the line first. One of those things.

PILLOWMAN

hi youngun, in nearly every instance i have found myself in that situation,i have no problem pushing my chips in.what made it different was my read on the player.im aware that in cash games where you are , lets say a 45/55 underdog but over 1000 situations you come out with a 52/48 profit you are happy to push.its just difficult for me to get my head around that in a tourney,as you wont get into that situation as often as if you play cash.but if its a profitable move long term its got to be done i guess.thanks.

FlashFlush

you did nothing wrong... if you fold AK at that stage of a tournament with blinds that high and only 3 left you wont win a trny... Kepp doing what your doing

PILLOWMAN

thanks flash , i know its the right thing to do . like i said before , i was certain i was up against a made hand.i even considered folding as it could of been against aa or kk . i just knew it wasnt aq or something like that.thanks for the encouragement.

OMahonyO

In Response to Re: ak on final table with 3 players left:

thanks flash , i know its the right thing to do . like i said before , i was certain i was up against a made hand.i even considered folding as it could of been against aa or kk . i just knew it wasnt aq or something like that.thanks for the encouragement.
Posted by PILLOWMAN

I find it difficult to believe that at this stage of a tourney, especially online, as you get no physical reads, you can say he def had a made hand like a high pair.

A better way of putting it would be that big pairs were a big part of his range, but so is AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, AT.... all these hands are big 3 handed, and imo have to be included in his range.

PILLOWMAN

omahonyo, offcourse i could of been completly wrong. i was basing my decicion on what i say him do previously.i also had that feeling i was being drawn into the hand,along the lines ---- i call with a8 for example,hit my 8 and go allin.im sure you have experienced that too.

KnackersYa

My opinion... If you're 100% certain that he has a high pair, then you can't put your money in knowing that you're behind. On the other hand, poker is never a 100% game so you have to shove. Calling is the worst thing you can do.

PILLOWMAN

hi knackersya , thats why the exit from that tourney kept nagging away. if i hadnt been as certain as i could be in that situation, i would of shoved,lost and moved on immediatly. i just went out in a deepstack in 3rd. i had aa,i lost against kk. doesnt bother me. { much lol}

PILLOWMAN

thanks for everyones input. got me thinking allot. and just made the difference between finishing 3rd in a tourny and 6st on the bubble !!!! big thankyou to all of you that post on here regular,much appreciated.