AJ tricky spot

Dudeskin8

Had only been on the table a short time so not many reads other than usual multiple limped pots in previous hands. It was a 10 handed table so didn't want to get to crazy but as there were only 8 seated I felt a raise pre with the AJ in CO wasn't too bad. Obvioususly didn't expect 4 callers but had position which helps.

Flop seemed pretty dead although I hadn't actually hit my hand so I decided to just call the minbet in position, as I'm not a fan of pure bluffing into 4 players at this level.

Turn brings the jack so I figure here go get some value, but then suddenly guy who minbets decides to stick a 1/2 pot bet in and a player calls it so this is where I'd like some advice on the best course of action. I do see players minbet the flop often, then bet way bigger on later streets, which made me think he had the 4, but is this too tight to fold ? I personally was in three minds of Fold, Call or Raise, but I'd like to know which would be best over time.

865	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.63
siarc	Sitout
bazza139	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.75
	Your hole cards	A J
metaraptor	Fold
betmakercn	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.79
_Moose_	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£5.43
Dudeskin8	Raise		£0.20	£0.34	£3.74
stad1966	Fold
865	Call		£0.18	£0.52	£1.45
bazza139	Call		£0.16	£0.68	£2.59
betmakercn	Call		£0.16	£0.84	£4.63
_Moose_	Fold
Flop
		3 4 4
865	Check
bazza139	Bet		£0.04	£0.88	£2.55
betmakercn	Call		£0.04	£0.92	£4.59
Dudeskin8	Call		£0.04	£0.96	£3.70
865	Call		£0.04	£1.00	£1.41
Turn
		J
865	Check
bazza139	Bet		£0.50	£1.50	£2.05
betmakercn	Call		£0.50	£2.00	£4.09
Dudeskin8

JohnConnor

Id fold this and wait until you've got a better idea of your opponents to pick a better spot. There's 2 opponents either of which could easily have the 4.

JC

beaneh

call turn

TommyD

You're action is fine preflop.  As you were the raiser I would pump the price on the flop up to 70p, I know we have quite a few other players in the hand but we need to find out if someone has a 4, plus we have the momentum in the hand.  By flating the min bet we are essentially checking.  The J comes on the turn and we have no idea if the players have KJ-J9 or trip 4s.  I would prefer the fold but an understand both the shove and the call.  I fold to wait to get a better idea of who and what I'm up against here.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot:

call turn
Posted by beaneh

Why, and what do you do on river facing a bet ?

beaneh

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot:

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot : Why, and what do you do on river facing a bet ?
Posted by Dudeskin8

I call turn because I am confused and could well have the best hand. I would raise flop some % depending on my reads on the opponents. 

on the river, well J's are good cards for us, aces don't really change our hand strength, a 4 is essentially a good card because it makes it less likely someone else has 4x. The river card wont matter too much I just want to see how my opponents will react and would go from there basically.

edit also have a think about how much you are risking and what you can win when you raise the flop, yes you are against 4 players but that has to also scare them. 

Patching99

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot:

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot : I call turn because I am confused and could well have the best hand. I would raise flop some % depending on my reads on the opponents.  on the river, well J's are good cards for us, aces don't really change our hand strength, a 4 is essentially a good card because it makes it less likely someone else has 4x. The river card wont matter too much I just want to see how my opponents will react and would go from there basically. edit also have a think about how much you are risking and what you can win when you raise the flop, yes you are against 4 players but that has to also scare them. 
Posted by beaneh

the large majority of players at this level will give this no consideration whatsoever.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot:

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot : the large majority of players at this level will give this no consideration whatsoever.
Posted by Patching99

Cheers Patch, let him play down there a few days and still say bet into 4 players lol.

LOL_RAISE

you say its 10handed but you open with AJ in CO because only 8 seats are filled, your CO range should be the same whether its 6handed or 10handed in an unraised pot( although when it gets really short handed you can argue this isnt true as people will be 3betting alot lighter as you are opening alot more hands because you pass the blinds alot more often. however at nl4 i dont think people are quite upto this thought process.)

i peel flop, call turn, bet river myself if checked to, call a bet on pretty much all rivers except maybe 2 and 7

Patching99

Would love to see that, he would probably smash it to be fair.

I fold and hope to see what they had and then make my notes.  My guess is that they called the preflop raise wiith 94?

BlackFish3

Call or raise flop.

Flat turn and blank rivers.

Basically i agree with beaneh and lol_raise.

Dudeskin8

Well this is how it turned out

865	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.63
siarc	Sitout
bazza139	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.75
	Your hole cards	A J
metaraptor	Fold
betmakercn	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.79
_Moose_	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£5.43
Dudeskin8	Raise		£0.20	£0.34	£3.74
stad1966	Fold
865	Call		£0.18	£0.52	£1.45
bazza139	Call		£0.16	£0.68	£2.59
betmakercn	Call		£0.16	£0.84	£4.63
_Moose_	Fold
Flop
		3 4 4
865	Check
bazza139	Bet		£0.04	£0.88	£2.55
betmakercn	Call		£0.04	£0.92	£4.59
Dudeskin8	Call		£0.04	£0.96	£3.70
865	Call		£0.04	£1.00	£1.41
Turn
		J
865	Check
bazza139	Bet		£0.50	£1.50	£2.05
betmakercn	Call		£0.50	£2.00	£4.09
Dudeskin8	Call		£0.50	£2.50	£3.20
865	Call		£0.50	£3.00	£0.91
River
		2
865	Check
bazza139	Bet		£0.36	£3.36	£1.69
betmakercn	Fold
Dudeskin8	Call		£0.36	£3.72	£2.84
865	Call		£0.36	£4.08	£0.55
bazza139	Show	Q Q
Dudeskin8	Muck	A J
865	Muck	K J
bazza139	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 4s	£3.78		£5.47

Decided to just call turn bet, then same on river, surprised at the QQ but i've seen worse tbh lol.

BlackFish3

Just lol at the lack of value the QQ got and move on to the next hand

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: AJ tricky spot:

Just lol at the lack of value the QQ got and move on to the next hand
Posted by BlackFish3

That's what players seem to do at this level lol but defo lost minimum, unless I folded turn.