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Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?

unknown_usernameunknown_username
edited June 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Here is a hand from a 10 Handed Deepstack. Its still early in the tourny when I make this call but after taking down the pot, villain was not best pleased with my play and suggested I was one of those gold or tropical varieties we see swimming around in a tank.

Am I right to make this call with 3 undercards on the flop?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
x Small blind  40.00 40.00 3192.50
x Big blind  80.00 120.00 4982.50
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • A
     
x Call  80.00 200.00 10750.00
x Fold     
POKERTREV Raise  320.00 520.00 5147.50
x Fold     
xl Fold     
Villain Call  320.00 840.00 4960.00
x Fold     
x Call  240.00 1080.00 4742.50
x Fold     
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 4
  • 8
     
x Check     
POKERTREV Check     
Villain Bet  560.00 1640.00 4400.00
xFold     
POKERTREV Call  560.00 2200.00 4587.50
Turn
   
  • K
     
POKERTREV Check     
Villain Check     
River
   
  • 3
     
POKERTREV Bet  1100.00 3300.00 3487.50
Villain Call  1100.00 4400.00 3300.00
POKERTREV Show
  • K
  • A
   
Villain Show
  • J
  • J
   
POKERTREV Win Two Pairs, Kings and 8s 4400.00  7887.50
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Comments

  • Patching99Patching99
    edited June 2010

    I'm personally not worried about the 3 undercards.  I would bet on the flop thinking i'm still ahead.

    PS:  don't post their hand straight away as it makes it hard to look at the hand impartially.  If you didn't I don't think I would ever put him on JJ! ;-)

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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited June 2010
    Trev, what was your thinking with the flop call?  Did you think your AK might be ahead and were calling to reassess on the turn, were you setting up a float or were you drawing to your cards?

    Can't really comment about if the call is fishy or not without that information.  However, I think the Jacks weren't played well at all.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    I'm personally not worried about the 3 undercards.  I would bet on the flop thinking i'm still ahead. PS:  don't post their hand straight away as it makes it hard to look at the hand impartially.  If you didn't I don't think I would ever put him on JJ! ;-)
    Posted by Patching99
    Hi Patchings.
    I wasn't too concerned about the 3 undercards either and in hindsight I think a bet on the flop instead of a check would have at least asked villain a question.

    Sorry about posting all the hand, it my first time in the clinic so i'll remember for next time.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited June 2010
    I play often in these as you know Trev and if I had AK in your position 5k behind 1k pot I make 700 bet then see what happens. If he raises snap fold if he calls start praying for an A or K but fold to any bet on turn ( within reason).

    With check-calling, for me it is a little fishy as your not asking any quetions to the Villain who could have overs like you and fold AQ/ AJ etc.

    For me defo bet. ;)
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    Trev, what was your thinking with the flop call?  Did you think your AK might be ahead and were calling to reassess on the turn, were you setting up a float or were you drawing to your cards? Can't really comment about if the call is fishy or not without that information.  However, I think the Jacks weren't played well at all.
    Posted by TommyD
    Hi Tommy.
    My thought process on a 10 handed table is slightly different because its very difficult to get everyone to fold because there are so many cards out and a lot of people come along for the ride until the later stages.

    On a 10 handed deepy AK is usually pretty strong if you can get enough people to fold hence my pre-flop bet. I will still get callers with AQ, AJ Ax or any other mid pocket pairs in this type of tourny so I feel my AK on this type of flop is still strong.

    I felt my pre-flop bet strong enough to get most to fold, but villain had come along for the ride so I have now got to put him on AK, AQ, AJ A10 or a mid pair. If he had re-raised my pre-flop bet then obviously I could put him on a much stronger hand like JJ, QQ, KK etc but it was just a flat call. 

    I checked the flop anyway thinking if villain has got a decent size pair like JJ or QQ he is gonna pot or at least 3/4 pot bet so he can take it down. As it was his half pot bet only made me more curious and made my hand feel much stronger, so I called to see if I could improve my hand, if I had not improved on the turn I would have been folding everytime.

    ____________________________________________________

    Going back to the flop
    I felt I was still in a strong position with 3 undercards on the flop and only had two thoughts at the time:

    1. Do I bet? or 2. Do I Check? Which one would give me the answer I needed?

    I really could'nt work out how much to bet on the flop to give me an answer from villain.

    If I check and villain checks then he has also missed, If I check and villain pot bets then I am folding. as it was villain did neither, so I called hoping to improve, which I did.

    I really never at any point put villain on JJ.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    I play often in these as you know Trev and if I had AK in your position 5k behind 1k pot I make 700 bet then see what happens. If he raises snap fold if he calls start praying for an A or K but fold to any bet on turn ( within reason). With check-calling, for me it is a little fishy as your not asking any quetions to the Villain who could have overs like you and fold AQ/ AJ etc. For me defo bet. ;)
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Looking back at it Dude I think your right, I just could'nt work out what to bet on the flop at the time to give me an answer so I checked, which I know shows weekness, but then I expected a pot bet from villain which I didn't get so I snap called. Luckily I hit on the turn and the rest is history as they say.

    I really don't think villain play was that great on this hand either and never at any stage did i put him on JJ.

    Thanks for taking the time dude, I know your a solid player so your comments are appreciated and I will try to remember for the next time.
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  • loonytoonsloonytoons
    edited June 2010
    I thought you played the hand ok. Maybe you could have re raised him after the flop if you thought he was stealing and hadn't hit also, but its ok either way. Yep you coulda folded, but with a low paired board, you'd have been really unlucky for him to have hit an 8. The 560 looks weak to me, like a steal, so i may have been tempted to stay on for the ride but i would have much prefered a raise. The turn is a stonker,and the rest is history, me personally think that instead of deriding your play, he should be looking at his own play, which i thought was poor, but then again i hate JJ anyway!
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    I thought you played the hand ok. Maybe you could have re raised him after the flop if you thought he was stealing and hadn't hit also, but its ok either way. Yep you coulda folded, but with a low paired board, you'd have been really unlucky for him to have hit an 8. The 560 looks weak to me, like a steal, so i may have been tempted to stay on for the ride. The turn is a stonker,and the rest is history, me personally think that instead of deriding your play, he should be looking at his own play, which i thought was poor, but then again i hate JJ anyway!
    Posted by loonytoons
    Cheers Loony.
    Thats made me feel a whole lot better about this play, I must admit I never even thought of a re-raise on the flop, but now you mention it, it does make sense.

    Thanks M8y
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  • BananaDogBananaDog
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    [QUOTE villain was not best pleased with my play and suggested I was one of those gold or tropical varieties we see swimming around in a tank.
    Posted by POKERTREV

    oooh, I just got called one of these too...in my case it was sort of true so I swam away quickly with the guys cash!
    note to self: must be more careful (also remember to buy fish food for tea from tescos)
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  • BananaDogBananaDog
    edited June 2010
    ooooh! I'm not a fish - I'm actually a shark! CHOMP!
    just been through my awful hand in the history bit with hubby....I actually did have odds to call all the way as I did cos I had a flush and double gut shot draw :o)
    oh this cash stuff is fun! lol
    right off to buy some shark food for tea and find my cash for dummies book! lol
    Good luck Trev x
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    ooooh! I'm not a fish - I'm actually a shark! CHOMP! just been through my awful hand in the history bit with hubby....I actually did have odds to call all the way as I did cos I had a flush and double gut shot draw :o) oh this cash stuff is fun! lol right off to buy some shark food for tea and find my cash for dummies book! lol Good luck Trev x
    Posted by BananaDog
    Lol Bananadog
    I can always rely on you to amuse me.

    Good Luck at the tables.
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  • BananaDogBananaDog
    edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing?:
    In Response to Re: Pocket Hooks v AK Hole Cards - Am I Fishing? : Lol Bananadog I can always rely on you to amuse me. Good Luck at the tables.
    Posted by POKERTREV
    Gosh Darn It...i am now officially a donkey fish! do they make donkey/fish food?
    think i'd better stick to the doubles (cry)
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  • BananaDogBananaDog
    edited June 2010
    (CRYING) and to top it off I just dropped my ice-cream on the carpet!!!!
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