hidden sets?!?!

mrdavies

I have been playing poker for a few years well about 6 years and i absolutley love the site (richard orford is hilarious by the way i have to say, him and tikay on screen romance is brilliant).

anywho, this message is just is because for the life of me I just cannot spot the signs or get away from someone with a set. I always seem to lose my bankroll with maybe top pair and top kicker or 2 pair only to see my opponent has hit a set! I just cant suss out the betting pattern I want to know if there is any tell tail signs of a strong hand like a set. I know slow play indicates strength but if a flop comes down say A 6 2..Rainbow board and I am holding AK i am never going to put that down and I will shuve at first opportunity am I right in sayng this or am I just a bad player!??

kind regards
Scotty boy

stuza

With playing against a set, not much you can do.
If they raise are you going to think its a set everytime, course your not, could be raising with maybe 2 pair with his rag A.

It is a strong fold if you can do it but couldnt see many people folding it. thats the kind of board you would hope for with AK except AAK lol

Just have to blame the poker gods

BelovedLtd

top pair top kicker and 2 pair is hard to get away from if your opponent has hit a set (or if you hit a set and they hit a higher one)

The only way to lose less from it is when the board looks dangerously like there could be a straight or a flush possible.

The flip side of this is that you really should make money when you hit a set

HAL_9000

Read super system. This will help you on all aspects of your game.

The problem is if your shoving with AK then people will fold most rag aces and you may get called by A8 or better so thats 5 hands that may call that you are beating. most people will fold, the ones that call are probably ahead, and even if not you are never that far ahead on a flop of A 6 4

I would estimate approximately £5000 of my profit is attributed to advice from various poker books, so if thats not worth a few quid investment I dont know what is

Keep Smiling

HAL_9000

 

BelovedLtd

In Response to Re: hidden sets?!?!:

Read super system. This will help you on all aspects of your game. The problem is if your shoving with AK then people will fold most rag aces and you may get called by A8 or better so thats 5 hands that may call that you are beating. most people will fold, the ones that call are probably ahead, and even if not you are never that far ahead on a flop of A 6 4 I would estimate approximately £5000 of my profit is attributed to advice from various poker books, so if thats not worth a few quid investment I dont know what is Keep Smiling HAL_9000  
Posted by HAL_9000

Oh yeah, I didn't notice the reference to shoving and losing bankroll because of it - yes, top pair top kicker is a ridiculous hand to shove with unless you're so short stacked that you have no choice.

If that's in a tournament then fair enough, but if you're playing cash then you should never be short stacked enough to have to shove with tptk you should be topping up so you're always deep stacked.

Everything people have said about just being unlucky when you're up against a set is true, but you should be playing it sensibly not just putting all your chips in.

ACE_RAGE

Your playing too agressive with poor hands, lets be honest, you're getting called in this scenario by a better hand everytime so work out if you win 4 out of 5 of these scenarios by the other player laying down on the one occasion you get called and lose your entire buy in,  makes it an unsustainable and long term unprofitable tactic. Why not push a larger raise but not an all in. If he calls (notes calls) then I would suggest he's hit a set and is looking to get you all in on the turn or the river as a reraise will get you folding. A reraise is slightly different, but I would address depending on the player I'm against.

Another way of routing these hands out is to reraise preflop with AK, i.e if someone limps in and then some one raises to 4 x BB, i would have no issue reraising to 10 x BB for several reasons. If guy A who limped in has 44/55/66 he might see your reraise as a clear example of someone with AA KK trying to generate a massive pot and he'll fold. Alternatively if your called by both or one of these players if fair to say your behind and I wouldn't look to instigate any more betting unless I got a great flop. I'd define a great flop as something that is giving me both straight and flush nut draws as the chances are you're already behind to one or two players who already have a pair and maybe even a set at the flop but your not drawing dead and will often get to see a reasonable priced turn as Mr A or B doesnt want lose his customer.

BelovedLtd

Ace Rage talks some sense - the gist would be you're overplaying top pair, but the details are going to be the key thing.

You should post some hands up in The Poker Clinic then you might get some analysis which is of more specific help

ACE_RAGE

here's an even harder one, how to spot when your set is beaten because your opponent has also flopped a bigger set.

Went out of a £50 deep stack live event not so long ago in the second blind level with 10'000 chips due to hitting a set of 6's and my opponent having a set of QQ's. Livid wasn't the word but I was too keen to get my money in and should have taken a minute to think why he'd reraised me prior to me coming back over the top all in. Still you live and learn.

BelovedLtd

Deepstack tournaments are interesting because when you've got that many chips you definitely don't need to chase huge pots as you've got plenty of chips, and you'll still have plenty of chips even if you've made an 'incorrect' fold.

A lot of time I would advocate pot control over profit maximisation in those circumstances, I'm often even overly cautious.

That said:

1. if you've got the stone cold nuts and there are very few redraws (e.g. if you've got top set on a rainbow board you're opponent is usually at best looking at a gutshot or an overpair to beat you) then bet as high as you think they'll call - you don't need to win a huge pot. but if it's that safe there's no reason to not try and do so.

2. Set over set on a dry board - wouldn't worry too much, these things happen. You're more likely to get your chips in and beat an overpair then you are to get  your chips in and get beaten by a higher set.