Blind vs Blind Line Check

YoungUn

Particularly looking for opinions on river play. Villain has been on the table for a very short time, so no reads.

PokerStars Game #45816962551:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2010/06/21 16:56:16 ET
Table 'Nininger IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: NillisLukins ($32.34 in chips)
Seat 2: Surmounter ($29.78 in chips)
Seat 4: fresh_illo ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: tematuk ($45.52 in chips)
Seat 6: Waldoch X ($25.28 in chips)
NillisLukins: posts small blind $0.10
Surmounter: posts big blind $0.25
DarkAlexandr: sits out

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NillisLukins [Qs Ah]

fresh_illo: folds
tematuk: folds
Waldoch X: folds
NillisLukins: raises $0.75 to $1
Surmounter: calls $0.75

*** FLOP *** [Ks Th Tc]
NillisLukins: bets $1.50
Surmounter: calls $1.50

*** TURN *** [Ks Th Tc] [Js]
NillisLukins: checks
Surmounter: checks

*** RIVER *** [Ks Th Tc Js] [6c]
NillisLukins: bets $3.75
Surmounter: raises $4.50 to $8.25
NillisLukins: calls $4.50

zing

bleh i see river as close between flatting and shoving as i remember 25nl as a nitfest but i think i still shove 

although you will face a fullhouse some % of the time you will still get called by Q9/Q10/KJ + other random stuff enough i think to make it more profitable readless 

no idea why you don't bet turn btw this is clearly a great card to get value from the range he calls flop with and kinda makes the hand wierd

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: Blind vs Blind Line Check:

bleh i see river as close between flatting and shoving as i remember 25nl as a nitfest but i think i still shove  although you will face a fullhouse some % of the time you will still get called by Q9/Q10/KJ + other random stuff enough i think to make it more profitable readless  no idea why you don't bet turn btw this is clearly a great card to get value from the range he calls flop with and kinda makes the hand wierd
Posted by zing

Pretty much 100% +1 this. The turn card is a great one for you to get stacks off 10x/KJ/KQ/Q9, so would happily bet the turn here with a view to getting it all in. To be honest, you're only worried about K10 and J10 here - if you've run into one of those two hands in this spot then it's just a bit of a cooler.

As played, I would shove the river and - irrespective of his river decision/result - note the hand for information later in the session.

LOL_RAISE

obv bet turn, hitting draws is sooooooooooooooooooo hard(although villains hit them all too often imo) you might aswell put some money in the pot when you do hit one!!

villain's SN & stacksize makes him more likely to be a reg than a fish

dont like shoving river as i think you turn your hand into a bluff, AQ is quite literally the bottom of your range for 3betting the river for value

to people saying he can have Tx Q9 etc, how often do you see people check behind v strong but non nutted hands? on the turn theres 3straight 2flush board so any reg should be betting Tx (should be betting boats too but people do stupid stuff). i think if you shove you get called by 66 KT JT, possibly AT (but theres only 6 combos of that)

beaneh

not betting the turn is criminal

YoungUn

to people saying he can have Tx Q9 etc, how often do you see people check behind v strong but non nutted hands?
Posted by LOL_RAISE

This is why I just called. I really couldn't imagine any bare 10 checking behind, and I felt like the only hand he could have that could call a shove that i'm beating is Q9.

not betting the turn is criminal
Posted by beaneh

How do react to a raise, though? Just get it in and hope he hasn't filled up?

I played for a check-raise on the turn if i'm honest, any Kx might want to just take the pot down there since the Js is a bit of a scare card. It's also a great bluffing card if he was floating the flop imo.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Blind vs Blind Line Check:

This is why I just called. I really couldn't imagine any bare 10 checking behind, and I felt like the only hand he could have that could call a shove that i'm beating is Q9. How do react to a raise, though? Just get it in and hope he hasn't filled up? I played for a check-raise on the turn if i'm honest, any Kx might want to just take the pot down there since the Js is a bit of a scare card. It's also a great bluffing card if he was floating the flop imo.
Posted by YoungUn

if he raises turn dont fold!

i think the riv decision to 3bet or call is the closest. 

TommyD

Defo gotta bet the turn.

On the river I open the note's on this player, type in 'he raises on the river with' and then flat.  I think in this case knowing his river play by seeing his cards may be more valuable in the long term than shoving only to have him fold, call with a house or call with a very badly played AT.

I'm not strictly speaking arguing against the shove, just offering an alternative line.

LOL_RAISE

i honestly dont think its that close at all between call and 3bet, unless you think hes going to fold 66, as i think he has this 80%+ of the time