What are you supposed to do..

repton3

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do..:

I seem to have lost quite a few hands in this way - so I really am seeking to pick up some subtle tips here.  I know playing out of position is always difficult, so I guess I could have checked the flop hoping to check raise, but my thinking was that with 4 of us in I didn't want it checking all the way round and a card coming out I didn't want to see (e.g an ace). Pre-flop noone reraised me so I wasn't thinking anyone had 1010 or better, I assumed A-x or small pocket pairs.  Once the flop came with no Ace I asked the question, and with the initial reraise I guessed A-Q (and hoped) and it turned out I was right, the call of that reraise I wasn't sure about but I didn't put him on a hand I was behind to.if I had gone all-in on flop I think I'd have got the same result too so I'm a bit stuck for ideas really.
Posted by repton3

Hi Repton
I think your right in that i dont think the guy would have folded.
You could make a note to the effect that he chases draws in a big way.
The range of hands you describe can be dangerous as 88, QJ, AJ,AQ,AK, would probably have come along(getting good ev).
If you were going to lay your kings down to a reraise (if an ace came on the flop),then i would suggest a meatier bet preflop.
These type of hand results do make you look at your way of playing, but short of going illin preflop and this doesnt guarantee success.
col

dowzer

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do..:

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do.. : Hi Guys Yes you were unlucky, but Dowser i somewhat disagree with what you say. If you look the k10 was getting about 3.5/1 on his original call, so there are only AA,KK,AK,KQ,KJ, that really worry him, so not to bad(i know you wont agree). However his allin call on the draw was the mistake imo. The problem is that there are to many people who think that is the correct play. They will lose in the long run but it can be hard to take when your against it. Before someone says he was priced to call the allin. There is a big difference between a cheap call preflop and putting your tourny on the line with a draw(all be it was up n down). col
Posted by mr_mbro

Good point but to a raise and a reraise I muck it every time - with K10 when two people have raised before you what are you hoping to beat? Add to that the chance that even if you hit you could still be massively dominated so, the odds may say call, but I couldn't/wouldn't.

FishingPhi

In a Donkament like this, you're preflop re-raise should be bigger. I would have shoved my whole stack and let the idiots make some decisions. But yes, it was a straight forward bad beat that will happen regularly when you're against players who like to gamble...

repton3

Ok at risk of sending this spiralling to area 51, here's another one from just a min ago in 400 garaunteed.  Took the advice above, raised bigger - all in preflop can't get much bigger..

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
88fireman	Small blind		10.00	10.00	780.00
thegrey1	Big blind		20.00	30.00	210.00
	Your hole cards	K K
carjam22	Fold
bethany410	Call		20.00	50.00	1560.00
nuntsu11	Call		20.00	70.00	1420.00
repton3	Raise		120.00	190.00	1310.00
88fireman	Fold
thegrey1	All-in		210.00	400.00	0.00
bethany410	Call		210.00	610.00	1350.00
nuntsu11	Fold
repton3	All-in		1310.00	1920.00	0.00
bethany410	Call		1200.00	3120.00	150.00
Flop
		Q 9 5
Turn
		J
River
		K
thegrey1	Show	2 A
bethany410	Show	8 10
repton3	Muck	K K
bethany410	Win	Straight to the King	3120.00		3270.00

So now what??

I will also admit I rose to typing something in chat to express my dissatisfaction - no naughty words but I let this one annoy me. Tilt++

repton3

Am I putting too much faith in KK - should I assume its not as strong as it looks and only ship in if a set appears as for lower pairs?

BADBOY985

YOU DIDNT DO ANYTHING WRONG YOU GOT BOTH PLAYERS ALL IN THE GUY JUST HIT LUCKY.  THIS EARLY IN THIS TOURNIMENT IF YOU GO ALL IN PREFLOP THE AQ DEFINATLY CALLS. THE K 10 THINKS ILL HAVE A PUNT MIGHT GET LUGKY THEN I TRIPLE OVER AND AM CHIP LEADER. IF YOU GO ALL IN OR BIG BET AFTER FLOP AQ HAS TOP PAIR ACE KICKER SO HE CALLS OR ALL INS YOU K 10 HAS MIDDLE OF STRAIGHT SO HE CALLS. THE TURN CHANGES NOTHING SO THEY DO THE SAME. SO I THINK WHAT IM SAYING IS YOU COULDNT WIN THIS HAND AT THIS TIME IN THIS TOURNIMENT NO MATTER HOW YOU PLAYED IT. IVE GIVEN UP TRYING TO WORK OUT OTHER PEOPLES CALLS AS MOST OF THE TIME THEY MAKE NO SENSE!!

Draig

I would bite the bullet in these tourneys and go all in, or realise, at the end of the day, it is just a pair, and bet accordingly. if you go all in in these type of tounreys you probably will get called, and all you can do is realise your going in with the best and hope it holds up.

Edit : Or better yet, play in deepstacks because you can then absorb the odd badbeat and still do well.

BADBOY985

I WAS POSTING MY FIRST REPLY AS YOU POSTED YOU SECOND SCENARIO. SO PROBABLY JUST READ THE LAST SENTANCE AGAIN LOL

FishingPhi

Fact is that preflop only one hand is beating KK, so shoving is never a bad move at this stage. Nearer the bubble, though, the situation totally changes and folding is often a sensible move when faced with a couple of all-ins.

You're running bad. Take time out.

annie_duke

lol take a break mate - that's just poor...

Draig

Oh dear...not nice.

Sky_mod1

Thanks Draig,

That post has been deleted.

unknown_username

2 unreal calls there!!!! 8 10 allin pre ??? a2 aswell ??? were u find these players??? im happy with these players on my tables, i just b patient and pick em off later when blinds r bigger, in early stages i try 2 keep pots small even with big pairs. lol i thought 1st post was cash

repton3

Cheers for all replies folks.  I shall digest and come back with ultra-invincible kings

dowzer

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do..:

I would bite the bullet in these tourneys and go all in, or realise, at the end of the day, it is just a pair, and bet accordingly. if you go all in in these type of tounreys you probably will get called, and all you can do is realise your going in with the best and hope it holds up. Edit : Or better yet, play in deepstacks because you can then absorb the odd badbeat and still do well.
Posted by Draig

Going all in you might win the hand but if you ony get 30 chips then you are not getting value from the hand - early on you need to play differently so you get paid with these premium hands. Later in a tourney when the blinds are worth stealing is a different story but at 10/20 I would never go all in unless going over the top of someone elses raise.

The real trick with playing kings is being able to lay them down if you think you are behind - if an Ace comes on the flop for example.

DJDamo666

Hi woz in same position a few days ago when i first started playing i had a full house on the flop the guy called with a pair of 5's i went all in he called and would you belive it 2 more 5's came down i woz gutted

Draig

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do..:

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do.. : Going all in you might win the hand but if you ony get 30 chips then you are not getting value from the hand - early on you need to play differently so you get paid with these premium hands. Later in a tourney when the blinds are worth stealing is a different story but at 10/20 I would never go all in unless going over the top of someone elses raise. The real trick with playing kings is being able to lay them down if you think you are behind - if an Ace comes on the flop for example.
Posted by dowzer

Normally I would agree but in my experience so far in the fast paced Sky tourneys, someone usually calls you, with all the usual JJ, QQ, AQ, AK and of course AA. Even 7-8 suited, 10-J I have been called with along with a range of smaller pairs like 7's and 8's and the rag A's.

Yes of course you can just walk away with just the blinds if all fold...but usually I find it a great chance to double up very early in the tourney.

I have had all results - hand holds up and I double through (sometimes triple), just get the blinds (rare), and also get called by a worse hand and get a bad beat.

Each to their own I guess, works for me enough times to make it worth doing, overall.

dowzer

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do..:

In Response to Re: What are you supposed to do.. : Normally I would agree but in my experience so far in the fast paced Sky tourneys, someone usually calls you, with all the usual JJ, QQ, AQ, AK and of course AA. Even 7-8 suited, 10-J I have been called with along with a range of smaller pairs like 7's and 8's and the rag A's. Yes of course you can just walk away with just the blinds if all fold...but usually I find it a great chance to double up very early in the tourney. I have had all results - hand holds up and I double through (sometimes triple), just get the blinds (rare), and also get called by a worse hand and get a bad beat. Each to their own I guess, works for me enough times to make it worth doing, overall.
Posted by Draig

In a fast paced tourney most of the hands you listed are going to call your all in anyway - 10's and above, AQ, AK will all probably call so you are only really protecting yourself against low suited connectors etc but going all in is still risking your whole tourney on one pair when there is only 30 in the middle.

jimmyp88

all in with 8 10?

Thats horrific play! You done nothing wrong there chum, Just come up against someone who likes a gamble. Nothing you can really do. This time it paid off for them, but 8 times out of 10 they'll look silly.

paul2475

Raise more maybe $400 pre-flop u gotta let these fish know u got something serious.
I doubt Freddy would be in the hand to a $400 pre flop raise.
You may have got a call from AQ which would have been great.