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What to do here
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| x | Small blind | 50.00 | 50.00 | 1207.50 | |
| The_Don90 | Big blind | 100.00 | 150.00 | 3135.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| a | Raise | 400.00 | 550.00 | 1355.00 | |
| ED22 | Fold | ||||
| cyall | Fold | ||||
| x | Call | 350.00 | 900.00 | 857.50 | |
| The_Don90 | Call | 300.00 | 1200.00 | 2835.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| x | All-in | 857.50 | 2057.50 | 0.00 | |
Ok so this is a DYM £2 entry this morning. I have both players covered, straight draw and a nut flush draw. My reads of both opponents below.
Player a - Player a has a played a few pots, mostly with suited cards, noteably all in preflop with Q2 of diamonds, which quickly lost to pocket kings. I think he may have 2 suited cards, possibly hearts, however that would mean i still have outs against him. Im pretty sure hes following Player x's all in with an all in himself should i call so i know i have to be prepared to call that should i call.
Player x - Hes already been tilted by player a so i have no real idea what to expect, possibly second maybe third pair. Against this i have all my possible draws. However apart from 3 hands, one against my aces and 2 against player a which where both bad beats in his eyes going by convo in the chat box he, he hasnt been that active. So im rather wary but i also have him as possibly on tilt.
If i call and miss im left with 1500 enough to recover from, if i fold and hit im kicking myself. Its one of those situations so im going to ask you guys what would you do here.
Comments
As you said with 2. if i was calling i wanted to take them both on, as you said im a monster drawing hand, if i hit at least the flush draw i likley take both out, if not the J might be good enough, if my reads are correct either a K or Q may also be good.
I decided a flat call to player x was best, this will hopefuly encourage player a to shove over the top. Which happened.
Player a turned trip aces, witch i didnt really like, but still any heart or any J was good against his AK. The J came on the river and as a result id cashed. Although i have to say i would have felt comfortable should i have lost the hand aswell with what chips i had left.
If I saw you making that plays like that in a DYM my notes about you would say something like 'calling station pre-flop'.
I senced weakness in my opponenets, one was on tilt and was all in with second pair and had called with a hand such as King Ten. The other hand been making funny plays alot, yes he actually had a hand this time but with 2 cards to come i have 12 outs.
9 hearts
3 jacks
Because i thought both opponents where weak i thought my Kings and maybe queens may also be good adding another 6 outs.
So why wouldnt i call this kind of situation when i think i have 18 outs to take 2 opponents out, having the chance to pop the bubble sooner rather than later.
I understand this turned out to be a misread and i did only have 12 outs and i hit one of them which i think i would hit around 40-45% of the time?
Just used a opt odds calcuator
AK - 48.0%
KQ - 46.9%
K10 - 5.1%
So im hitting 46.9% of the time to win the hand i cover most of my outs, im only 1.1% weaker than AK.
After the turn im still 28.6% of the time hitting the card i need. AK is now 71.4% abd K10 is dead.
So is it trully that bad a call?
Fasir enough, it worked out this time, but it's an unwise move in the long run.
The point isn't your read on 2 players tilting and being weak etc, the point is your strategy for DYM's, this is not cash, you can not reload if your wrong and adjust your image of the players. You are in with KQ against a raise (which i think was 4x bb but can't see origianl post), this has then been called so at this point it would be fair to assume that KQ is beat here and quite prossably dominated by an AQ - Ak type hand.
DYM's are not about winning, you don't need to jepordise your tournament to tripple through. All you need to concern yourself with is survival and with KQ to a 4xbb raise and a call then it's an insta muck. Your playing for 3rd not 1st, it doesn't matter if you win
Although how you mean im a 70 - 30 dog? preflop or on the flop. Preflop was a misread and i had 3 to 1 on my money to call which means i only have to be right two thirds of the time.
As it turns out i was domiated by Ak by probably the weakest opponent on the table. I understand your saying its not cash aswell so if i am rong i cant reload etc. However i felt i was correct and went with my gut. Maybe not the wisest thing to always do but one i use alot and often get it corrrect.
2) fine to go with your read on an oponent but i would choose a better position, if the guy is playing any 2 OOP as you say then you will get an opportunity against him alone when you are stronger than KQ with position. If you were against this 1 oppo with a read on him then you probably get different responses to your post.
2. Yea i understand this point and will listen to it. Against one oppoenent my draws may have been good against 2 i could be 0% on the turn easily. Thanks.
So my two pennies worth is can understand the call, maybe not if someone tight is doing the 4 betting.
Can understand people saying to play it safe and fold as its DYM and KQ is not good against 2 opponents but in the lower buy ins well anything less the £5.50 would say the standard is poor and you often get players who over value there hands so you have the value in the initial call. perfect flop and you have them covered afterwards and you will still have plenty so why not call or even shove on this(i would probably do this because then it is likely one of the 2 fold)
you say will be here to help on here you put fold pre flop no reasons?? then you say dont listen to me again no reasoninig. most people will at least give a reason so we have have another opinion and make a decision based on peoples advice and use to our advantage next time care to say any more then KQ fold preflop and are you saying in no instance would you call KQ in a 3 way pot preflop??? this is low stakes sit n go maybe your too advanced for these
KQ is too easily dominated by an UTG raiser and another called.People call with paint so you can pretty easily assume that one of them either has one of your outs or has you outkicked if you hit. Exactly what hand are you expecting a 4xbb utg raise to have that you beat? and then when it is also called by somebody else you know that A2 is ahead of you never mind any pokcet pair plus AK AQ. It's just not the situation to get involved pre flop
Sorry if I come across as arrogant.
im not saying its a standard call but based on the price of the tourney as i play similar and beat, i agree its not profitable to call a 4 bet out of position just depends on the individual scenario really. Unless i have read how he has read the other two players(makes sense [ ] ) basically if utg has 4 bet and very aggressive could have suited connectors and other person who has called maybe they hold a similar hand. but the key is how to play on the flop, then the flop is as good as you can expect with KQ and the Ace Hearts out already, i wouldn't assume K or Q were good even though they maybe but your getting implied odds and essentially 3-1. alot of how i play this hand would be based on my feel of the opponents and also chip sizes in this example he has them covered by 1500 rather then nit it up and still need a bit of luck worth Knocking others out as you have 12 outs which means for it to be profitable you need to win 1 in 3 times you make this call
If it was on the bubble i would then not risk it here but although you may have other chances i think this is a good spot here
you seem far more concerned with the post flop play and and trying to make a good argument for the way it was played. While some of your points may be valid the crux of the argument of others is that it shouldn't have got that far if you were trying to play an optimum strategy to CASH not win in a DYM
So say its 2 off the bubble in a tournament where i usually play, the two shortest stacks are in this situation i have the same reads etc. Is it a bad call pre flop.
Thanks for understanding my post flop arguement this is the main reason why i posted this hand.
Pre flop ive watched two shorter stacks playing, one very loose aggressive, i believe the correct term for that type of player is a maniac (going by xbox game on that one) and one who seemed to be tight aggressive (shark) at the start. However the shark was put on tilt by the maniac and this then was playing loose passive poker more of what youd expect from what i believe the pro's call a fish. So as a result i thought my KQ was good, and i got it wrong and the flop was almost the best i could have asked for.
So maybe i played it in a tournament style a little too much which maybe isnt the best for a DYM. Is this maybe the reason why i go on streaks of wins in DYM's followed by streak of losses? Do i play too much tournament poker where i shouldnt?
If we forget what actually happened post flop and take a hypothetical - Theres 4xbb raise from UTG, a call following and you call from the BB with KQ. The flop comes 7 9 K Rainbow - What do you do? You have to act first because your out of position and you have no idea where you are in the hand, you've hit but you could easily be dominated
Are you going to get it all in because you have hit the top pair with an ok kicker? as we know from what the other guys held your going to get called in an instant because your owned by the AK. it's not about the result it's about the thought proces KQ KJ K10 QJ etc are all pretty easilt dominated when playing 3 ways to a big raise and a call.
I argee with most people, in a DYM why get involved to a raise pre-flop and oop with that hand, but having done that you have so many outs that you just about have to call the all-in, then getting 10 to 1 after the second all-in in is a must to call.
You got lucky this time but in DYMs it is more prudent to preserve your chips until 4 handed.
col
Once you have a good stack you sit back and not play marginal hands. Consider this hand from the point of view of the 2 preflop folders. They watched you play a marginal hand out of position and get lucky and it ended the game so they had sat back with their stacks and watched you take all the risks and do all the work for them.
A succesful strategy at DYMs is to accumulate chips and to take as few big risks as possible.There will be enough people risking everything to get an early chip lead to allow much tighter play to be successful.
I got lucky and ended the game.
Aces over 8s thanks for the comment. like yourself im a MTT player and only really play DYMS at night when i cant sleep as a result i want to improve my game on these areas.
I teand to make my profits in the MTT's (not so much of late) and lose on the S&G's. Wouldnt sharkscope me im a little up and down although profits do still stake at over £200 which im a little disappointed since ive won over £2000.