Value bets

The_Don90

Ok something ive never been strong at is value betting the river. I usually do over bet in that situation. So i was woundering can anyone give me advice on the all important value bet.

Cowgomoo

I think this is a very broad question, try and be more specific for some good answers.

BelovedLtd

The broad answer to the broad question is that you have to bet the highest amount that your opponent will call.

That's going to come down to your people reading skills and your hand reading skills.

Hand reading will give you how strong their hand is, obviously the stronger their hand is the more they'll call - if it's  a very strong hand then they're likely to call even if they think you're beating them because people just hate to be bluffed off very strong hands.

The people reading is slightly more complex.
If they're a bad player they'll call more chips
If they think you're a bad player they'll call more chips.
If you've shown some bluffs, they might call more chips - but this depends on your read of them still, some players will just 'let' you get away with bluffs and stick with only calling strong bets with strong hands.

There are probably a few more factors, but they're the ones I can think off of the top of my head.

Talon

  There is a lovely little trick you can use which will allow you to make more with your value bets.It will only work if you are playing against the same players for a good length of time and that they pay attention to what is going on.

  What you do early on in the session is to put some really big bets in on the river and show bluffs.Also when you have the goods only put in tiny river bets and again show you have the goods. If your opponents pay any attention to this then you have set it up perfectly twofold. Firstly from then on you can bluff with much smaller bets because they will be wary of calling and when you wish to value bet a good hand you can bet much higher because the big bets will be called down lighter.

  As i said this only works with opponents who pay attention.But i think setting up a false table image is never a bad thing

The_Don90

Ill try narrow this down a little.

ill use one live hand from the other week as example.

blinds 25/50.

I have AA in big blind (stack: 3100)

4 limpers round to button who min raises.  
SB folds
I raise 6x min raise bet (based on amount of opponents already limped)
UTG calls
everyone else folds

Flop comes : Q82

I bet 500
UTG calls

Turn: K

I bet 1000 (half my remaining stack) 
UTG calls.

River: A

I shove the rest in.
UTG calls.


I know in this situation i get a call but my opponent was pot commited i think, However in others when i have a bigger stack my river bet is usually my strongest as a result i rarley get paid.

BlackFish3

Would help if you would give your stack size and his in the above hand.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Value bets:

Would help if you would give your stack size and his in the above hand.
Posted by BlackFish3

Ive edited the above post, cant remember exactly but that works out about correct maybe 100 or 200 short if anything, was only 3rd or 4th hand into the game and id won a couple and lost one hand. So cant remember exactly the correct amount.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Value bets:

Ill try narrow this down a little. ill use one live hand from the other week as example. blinds 25/50. I have AA in big blind (stack: 3100) 4 limpers round to button who min raises.   SB folds I raise 6x min raise bet (based on amount of opponents already limped) UTG calls everyone else folds Flop comes : Q82 I bet 500 UTG calls Turn: K I bet 1000 (half my remaining stack)  UTG calls. River: A I shove the rest in. UTG calls. I know in this situation i get a call but my opponent was pot commited i think, However in others when i have a bigger stack my river bet is usually my strongest as a result i rarley get paid.
Posted by The_Don90

You want to decide on the river if you have the best and what your opponent most likely has. If you are betting for value you want to be targeting a certain portion of your opponents range that is worse than your hand but with which you think he can call a bet.  Similarly if you are bluffing you need to bet an amount that makes the majority of the hands better than yours fold.  Try posting more hh's.

The_Don90

Online example. I know this ended on the flop but is there any way i could have got paid

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
kevcoke69	Small blind		50.00	50.00	2175.00
a	Big blind		100.00	150.00	2621.25
	Your hole cards	10 A
x	Call		100.00	250.00	898.75
davy46	Fold
The_Don90	Raise		200.00	450.00	815.00
olbert	Fold
kevcoke69	Fold
a	Call		100.00	550.00	2521.25
x	Call		100.00	650.00	798.75
Flop
		2 4 A
a	Check
x	Check
The_Don90	Bet		325.00	975.00	490.00
a	Fold
x	Fold
The_Don90	Muck
The_Don90	Win		650.00		1140.00
The_Don90	Return		325.00	0.00	1465.00

Cowgomoo

Min raise preflop achieves nothing, but as played I'd be betting more around 375 - 425 to get value from weaker aces, weaker pairs and draws. Just because they all folded doesn't mean you should bet less or check.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Value bets:

Min raise preflop achieves nothing, but as played I'd be betting more around 375 - 425 to get value from weaker aces, weaker pairs and draws. Just because they all folded doesn't mean you should bet less or check.
Posted by Cowgomoo

Sorry i should have gone into more detail about this hand. The table had been extremly tight going into this. I hadnt played that many hands (trying my new DYM tactic of 4 going at a time, very sucsessfully i must say) so i thought a min raise was not to strong and not too weak either.

BlackFish3

don, what cowgomoo just said applies despite what you just said k?

The table has been really tight but you haven't played many hands, hmmm if the table was really tight then just play loose and steal blinds loads. Min raise there is always terribad.