good lay down?

The_Don90

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
3	Small blind		150.00	150.00	1095.00
1	Big blind		300.00	450.00	4415.00
	Your hole cards	Q 10
2	Fold
The_Don90	Call		300.00	750.00	2830.00
3	Fold
1	Check
Flop
		A A 2
1	Check
The_Don90	Check
Turn
		A
1	Check
The_Don90	Check
River
		2
1	All-in		4415.00	5165.00	0.00
The_Don90	Fold
1	Muck
1	Win		750.00		750.00
1	Return		4415.00	0.00	5165.00

The BB had been aggressive hense the limp pre i was expecting a raise to re-pop. AA flop i didnt really like. A on turn helped a little. However the all in on the river, could he have that case ace?

BananaDog

ok i have no idea what anyone else thinks but basically a full house came out and my rule is "never call for a split pot".....I just dont think it's worth bothering, the only thing you would be beating is a bluff which would result in a split anyway and if he did happen to have the A you only lost 300 chips )
There can be so many things wrong with a call when your not sure but not usually a wrong move to fold..even if your bluffed off, at least your still in the game!
As I say dont know what other poeple think here but from me "Well done Donnyboy!"

dylan12

First of all, you can't always rely on opponents to do the betting for you so get your chips in there if you want to play the QT, you could do with the chips in the middle to build your stack. If the player has been aggresive then he surely would have raised pre with Ax therefore you can dismiss him having an Ace imo. Do I call the river bet - probably yes tbh - ofc he could have pp of his own better than the 22 but as you say going by your reads - the opponent is aggresive, therefore once again the question is - would he have checked the BB with a pp - imo again, probably not - so as played I call the river. It's easy to analyse the hands after the occurance but you could have probably represented that flop or turn yourself because your in position and your opponent has played it so passively.

yb

When you're down to around 10bb's on the button you should really be going all-in with any half decent hand, so QTs should be an insta-shove first of all. As played I fold on the river. We would be risking 2830 chips to win 375, so for us to make the call profitably we have to be right well over 85% of the time.

And remember make sure you start shoving more when you're getting short-stacked before you lose all fold equity!!!

Eagle26

no idea why u just flat call pre-flop! your idea of limping to induce the raise from the bb makes no sense to me, with your hole cards and your stack i cant work that out! as played i just fold the river i cant see any benefit of calling for a split

Dudeskin8

Don't limp with 10 BB's !!!

GaryQQQ

Easy shove pre-flop. The BB would have instantly mucked junk hands that include a 2, but now they're ahead of you.
 
If you shove then maybe 25% of the time you're going to be called and eliminated, but this will be more than made up for by the times you either take the blinds or double-up. When you're down to 10BB in a tournament you can't afford to pass on an opportunity like this, you need to double up urgently if you're going to stand any chance of taking it down.

With only 10BB your reads don't really come into it, you should be in push/fold mode, the cards will just play themselves.

BTW When you limped in from the button an aggresive opponent on the BB would almost certainly have done the shoving for you with quite a wide range including any ace or any pair, so the flop was an easy push for you too IMO.

Action_Dan

There's arguments to call and fold but it's position you should never have been in! On the button, unraised pot and under 10BB, I'm shoving with any two here so Q10 suited looks beautiful - remember it's harder for them to call than you to bet so there's perfect chance to pick up substantial % of your stack uncontested and there's no difficult decisions once your chips are in the middle...even if you're unlucky and they find hand, you're by no means dead! You want to be picking up pots like this whenever possible as they make difference between being short stacked where you're always in danger and medium stack where you can always be ahead of the play, picking up small pots without ever risking your tournament life!

As played, you should at least bet the flop in position - their check pre and post flop suggests they've got nothing so there's your chance to pick up the pot...by showing weakness, you've given them all the initiative and although you're probably splitting, they've now picked up 750 chips that should've been in your stack! If you were willing to invest 300 pre flop, you shouldn't mind investing another 300 on the flop as there's little difference between 8-10BB's anyway! Limping to induce the raise as you mention also doesn't make sense - you suggest villain is aggressive but if they raise, they're now committed to the pot so would have to call your shove regardless so you've lost whatever fold equity you had remaining! 

If you're still in doubt, your plan also fails if they just set you all in...do you want to call off your tournament with Q10, knowing you're going to see five cards against any random hand when you could've got chips in first?

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: good lay down?:

There's arguments to call and fold but it's position you should never have been in! On the button, unraised pot and under 10BB, I'm shoving with any two here so Q10 suited looks beautiful - remember it's harder for them to call than you to bet so there's perfect chance to pick up substantial % of your stack uncontested and there's no difficult decisions once your chips are in the middle...even if you're unlucky and they find hand, you're by no means dead! You want to be picking up pots like this whenever possible as they make difference between being short stacked where you're always in danger and medium stack where you can always be ahead of the play, picking up small pots without ever risking your tournament life! As played, you should at least bet the flop in position - their check pre and post flop suggests they've got nothing so there's your chance to pick up the pot...by showing weakness, you've given them all the initiative and although you're probably splitting, they've now picked up 750 chips that should've been in your stack! If you were willing to invest 300 pre flop, you shouldn't mind investing another 300 on the flop as there's little difference between 8-10BB's anyway! Limping to induce the raise as you mention also doesn't make sense - you suggest villain is aggressive but if they raise, they're now committed to the pot so would have to call your shove regardless so you've lost whatever fold equity you had remaining!  If you're still in doubt, your plan also fails if they just set you all in...do you want to call off your tournament with Q10, knowing you're going to see five cards against any random hand when you could've got chips in first?
Posted by Action_Dan

Please elaborate.

Action_Dan

In Response to Re: good lay down?:

In Response to Re: good lay down? : Please elaborate.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Just highlighting that some people will see it as stealing the split pot and want to call but pointing out the majority of people fold on the river for all the reasons we've mentioned...that wasn't meant as there's arguments to call or fold pre flop as rest of my post shows that it's 100% shove and then there's no decision he's faced with on the river!

The_Don90

I agree, i should have shoved pre rather than tryng to bring the raise to re-raise. I made the mistake and its one i havent made much recently, this was just one of them times.

dylan12

In Response to Re: good lay down?:

In Response to Re: good lay down? : Just highlighting that some people will see it as stealing the split pot and want to call but pointing out the majority of people fold on the river for all the reasons we've mentioned...that wasn't meant as there's arguments to call or fold pre flop as rest of my post shows that it's 100% shove and then there's no decision he's faced with on the river!
Posted by Action_Dan

Agreed, totally based on villain - I have folded in this situation many times and called a few times also. Going by the read here of the villain being aggro then for me it is a no brainer - snap call and add 75 to my original chip stack rather than losing 1BB. But as I stated in my previous post - don should have stolen on flop or turn anyway and as everyone has mentioned (i think) shove pre flop anyway!!