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Last nights 5 biggest losing hands - Thoughts?
hi doh, just in furture try to limit it too 1/2 hands per thread max, just easier for the flow of dicssioun later.
hand 1) Pre is fine. Flop is very bad for you 3 way we have no backdoor draws and are dead to 6 outs, we can assume these are weak/bad players for limp calling. So this flop hits there ranges quite well such as
Xsuited, Ysutied, 56,76 a6/a6 etc, even two overs like KQ KJ QJ J10 they may call one bet. You have postion so I would just check back here, I cant see you folding out too much. I would instead go for a delayed C-bet which is if they check the turn we fire out on any card.
Turn changes nothing, if they called a flop bet, they are most likely going to call the turn with the 2c being a brick. so check here too.
hand 2) you raised from UTG, you cant really rep too much on a board like this expect for TT-AA, i would check again here as you have postion and if they check to you again go for another delayed cbet.
Turn bet is fine as you have a ACE in your betting range. w/o reads river is just a check here, he called two streets OOP and is not bothred by the A too much, just check behind river, no need to bet without reads.
hand 1) Pre is fine. Flop is very bad for you 3 way we have no backdoor draws and are dead to 6 outs, we can assume these are weak/bad players for limp calling. So this flop hits there ranges quite well such as
Xsuited, Ysutied, 56,76 a6/a6 etc, even two overs like KQ KJ QJ J10 they may call one bet. You have postion so I would just check back here, I cant see you folding out too much. I would instead go for a delayed C-bet which is if they check the turn we fire out on any card.
Turn changes nothing, if they called a flop bet, they are most likely going to call the turn with the 2c being a brick. so check here too.
hand 2) you raised from UTG, you cant really rep too much on a board like this expect for TT-AA, i would check again here as you have postion and if they check to you again go for another delayed cbet.
Turn bet is fine as you have a ACE in your betting range. w/o reads river is just a check here, he called two streets OOP and is not bothred by the A too much, just check behind river, no need to bet without reads.
Comments
APART FROM THE FACT IM A SUPER DUPER HUMONGOUS CALLING STATION.....
I keep posting individual hands, with big decisions, thought I'd post a few and see if you can spot any common problems with my play, maybe bet sizing?
I feel I must be the worst "turn" player at any level on sky poker, I really dont understand why.
If I hae any relelvant reads on the players in the hand, shall note them above.
1) Trying to hit my cash for points 4k mark so I can get a 25% bonus, so decided to play a 10 handed table, sit there and play like the top 5/6 hands agro.
I fire 3 times, should I just give up?
So often when players check to me on the river, I automatically assume they have a busted flush draw and feel I'm obliged to fire.
The same applies, to a lesser extent when a guy just shoves a blank river out of nowhere when the draw bricks, I think I need to allow people to bluff me more....
3) I can't fold to the min raise on the turn? - But when he follows up on the river, should I be folding? And if so, shouldn't I really be folding the turn? As the river is a blank, does this been I was calling to draw to a full house? Surely this is bad long term....
I know the guy plays a wide range of hands, all the flop draws missed, wouldn't have thought he'd play a strong flop holding so passively, so I had to fire again....right???
Imagine whats gonna happen when I run bad....
Its a frightening thought!!
Maybe will help spot a common bet sizing issue?
HELP ME POKER CLINIC!
I'm hoping to make a video over the next few days, have an "instructor" on M S N - Im useless with technology, can only work skype! - but hopefully can figure out how to get it going and post a link on here, to get some proper feedback, but in the mean time - RIP ME TO SHREDS!!
as played I dont like the donk lead out, its just because we have a FD/gutter, and if we get raised it kind of sucks because we are most likely behind at this point, and we either have to shove/fold. I would perfer a c-r call a shove line a lot more here.
As played though, i would bet this turn because the times you hit on you river you want to extract value, the bigger the pot by the river the more value you can extract.
the B-C-B line that you took, just looks like a missed draw or bluff hand which is going to get looked up alot by any decent hand reader.
Also DOOH I dont know if its your standard to bet 100% of flop that you raise pre with, but from these 5 hands only (be it a small sample) you are doing it quite a bit, it can be exploitable, if you never use the delayed cbet, try working that into your game too mate.
I try and chime in on the other hands later
Right here it goes, apologise if chatting **** just wanted to analyse it how i would have played them:
1) 9x re-raise thats a big raise pre flop why? 3/4 pot size bet i like, from there on im not sticking anymore in as you have position would aim to check it down and fold to any bet. unless your opponent is a serial bluffer your not really beating anything here.
2) QJ utg difficult to play so glad you raised if you wanted to play, i would have folded here
like bet sizing on flop, think played correctly to continuation bet turn, then would just check down
3)Good bet pre , i would bet more on the flop as you dont want people coming along for the flush. After that as played no getting away from losing nearly your full stack as couldn't really put on 44 unless specific reads and loose call by them pre
4) Dont like the pre flop call, as against aggros dont you want to tighten up? so when you have the nuts you get paid. Bet fine on flop, on the turn i would fire again so you can represent you have at least a Q, suprised you bet soo much on a bluff on the river as been called right down and you have nothing. another day this would have worked and against a better player also, try not to bluff bad players as they are always likely to call
5)Pre would have 3 bet to £2.40 so your not giving pp the price to hit, if called then would have overbet flop as you have overpair and you dont want people chasing their flush. as played dont blame the call on the river although i wouldn't be confident, you are beating the board but they could have higher pp or even a set but crying call it is
Hand 1) You rause it to 9 times the BB and never consider that your opponent might have a hand to call you with. Alarms bells should be ringing preflop and when he calls your c-bet. To then put him all-in with Ace high is just throwing away money.
Hand 3) sets are always difficult to spot. This guy flats the flop and raises the turn and plays the hand to perfection and there is really no way off of it for you.
Hand 5) This one is a good hand for you because you listened to the alarm bells and though you were always going to lose the pot i think you did well to lose as little as you did
If you are doing this on another site which allows you to tile tables effectectly, if you have not found anyone better i dont mind doing a post recorded review with you. You seem like a decent player and hopefully we can learn things from each other. I think we play around the same stakse i dunno 50nl£
In Response to Re: Last nights 5 biggest losing hands - Thoughts?:
Hero is on the Button in Hand 4 with J8hh.I'll try and give suitable advice, but time and time again what I say is completely the opposite to what beaneh and others say, so take my "advice" at your own risk I guess, haha. Before I start, a friendly reminder that it'd be better for us if you didn't post the results next time.
Hand 1: I wouldn't try and let any external things (even if they are beneficial) change the way you play, for a start. I imagine you playing this hand in the same way whether you were chasing Cash for Points or not, but don't let it effect your table selection and playing style. I imagine that you've just lost the benefit of the extra Cash for Points in that one hand, so that proves it to be a little pointless imo. As for the actual hand, I think I give up on the turn, because villain's stack size makes me think he's less likely to fold out hands that we're beating. There's no harm in slowing down and giving a flush draw a free card when we've got A high, particularly as if it doesn't get there we have position with a bit of showdown value.
Hand 2: The river bet size is too big for me. If we're repping the A and have our villain on a 9 and think he may call a river bet (unlikely no matter what the bet-size is imo), we're never going to bet that much. Bet something like £7 or £8 and you're going to lose a lot less money when you get shipped on (as well as maybe getting it through a small % of the time if villain believes your story).
Hand 3: Wp, just a little unlucky imo. Bet sizes are fine throughout, you should never fold the turn because hands like Axdd, KJcc, JTcc, JQ and AJ could take this flop/turn line imo. I think folding might be a little too nitty, especially considering some of the hands that could be value-betting that river that we beat. Put this hand down to variance and be pleased that you didn't go nuts on the turn (which I probably would do) with an improved hand that's still second best.
Hand 4: Fold pre, I know we have the button but that's not an excuse to play a speculative hand, especially if you're going to mis-use your position later in the hand. I like the flop-bet but feel you should continue on the turn, it builds up the pot if you bink it on the river, gives you the opportunity to re-assess on the river as you're almost always being checked to, and of course gives you the opportunity to take the hand down there and then. This is where having the results makes it harder for us because we know that a turn bet gets villains off their hands. As played I check back the river because we can't rep anything. Any Q or better would bet a scary turn, checking the turn as played does turn your hand face-up as you said.
Hand 5: Villain's name hasn't been xxx'ed out at the end of the PF action. Villain being a "complete donk" doesn't really help. Is he a calling station or an uber-aggresive donk? Without specific reads I bet/fold turn, as played I check/fold river. We're only really beating something silly like Ah9x, and that's about it. Any 2 hearts, 67, sets, two pairs all beat us, calling river with TT = attempted hero call imo.
Hand 6: The fact that you are not getting bad beated should be a positive thing for you on 2 counts. One; You're not running bad so you have nothing to blame other than yourself for losing these hands, and Two; You recognise that YOU are making mistakes and with the help of the Poker Clinic and your own self-assessment you can make steps towards correcting those. From a personal perspective in terms of developing as a player, i'd be much happier losing hands through bad play rather than bad luck, because I know that I have areas of my game to work on.
I hope what i've said makes sense, helps you, and more importantly isn't completely contradicted by the thoughts of beaneh and co. later on lol.
Hand 2: I'd fold pre normally but dont mind the raise, flop and turn is fine, he aint folding the river unless he has just a fd which we might be in front of anyway so just check back.
Hand 3: Cooler, although id fist pump get it in on turn.
Hand 4: Pre and flop is fine, even better draw on turn so id bet smallish around £6.50-£7 to allow us to shove the river when we hit. Probably just give up on blank rivers.
Hand 5: 3 bet bigger, also id b/f the turn for the reasons lynx gave
Hand 6: fine
Yeh I didnt wanna take over the whole clinic like Don did, but wanted to avoid posting individual hands where people just say what they would do and why....
Instead I wanted a general over-view of my play which again is hard in only 5/6 hands - but a few things are coming up time and time again in the replies.
Is pretty obvious I just bet far too much down the streets....
Think the only way Im gonna get the answers Im looking for is the video idea, I have team viewer already, but assumed I ud just post the vid on youtube/pokertube, and put a link on here?
My laptop aint great, so will maybe only be able to 1 table.....but I can pause the vid and re-start it when im gonna play a hand/am in an interesting situation right?
In Response to Re: Last nights 5 biggest losing hands - Thoughts?: i aint no douche, its just too many haters on this site brah.
Beats are part of poker, they are poker. Suck them up and enjoy.
hand3 i ship turn all day long and just incase you were wondering he didnt play this hand perfectly, hes telling you he has a very strong made hand, but your top2 pair beat part of this range so id stack off.
preflop call w/ J8hh is fine if you are going to do stuff postflop regardless of hand strength
harvey you say the B/C/B line looks like a bluff and any good hand reader will see this and call, its pretty much the opposite tbh, atleast vs a decent/good player. when you b/c/b you should have no air in your range as you should be either 2 barreling or giving up completely(if your 2barreling range has no air part of it then you are super exploitable). use this line when you are pot controling and going for thin value on the river and you will get looked up ridiculously light.
in hand 5 you have TT either bet or c/f the turn c/cing is the worst option unless you have a good read that he likes to flat 3bets light, floats flops and bluffs turns. when you c/c the turn and he bets the river, i cannot possibly think of a worse hand that is betting the river, and nearly ever hand that beats you is going to bet. so villain will just play perfectly against you(this is a bad thing!).i think bet/fold turn and c/f river is a better line to take.
Will recording the tables effect the speed? - I can fill dead spots by asking questions, in general, analysing the hand taking place, talking about things I do right/wrong alot of the time, and making up scenarios.
I think there will be a language barrier, I don't use the posh poker words such as 'line' 'equity' 'range' etc, it's more like "he could have this" or "he played it in a way which suggests he has that" and "what the fcuk cud he have??" haha.
I find myself betting with air alot, and watching the time bar run down, cakkin my pants. There seems to be no control and alot of gamble alot of the time, and this cannot be good!
Anyway, hopefully the vid will come across ok, ull just have to excuse my broad northern accent and general "fold u f cker" comments.
Hope it works!!
(btw, Im trying to totally re-set my game, Ive been a winning player online for 3/4 years, making regular/solid money playing a winning game which I KNOW works at stakes between nl30-50££££ .. (and am up comfortably over a relatively small sample size at nl100 too).....the 'obvious' mistakes which are occuring are due to me trying to completely learn a new way of thinking/playing from scratch - I aint a total donkeeeeeeeeeeee)
LOL