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Omaha WWYD

edited July 2010 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
wba157 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £1.00
8aked8ean Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £4.62
DOHHHHHHH Sit out        
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
  • 5
  • 9
     
YOUNG_GUN Call   £0.04 £0.10 £3.60
Talon Call   £0.04 £0.14 £15.82
tinman1958 Call   £0.04 £0.18 £2.02
wba157 Raise   £0.20 £0.38 £0.80
8aked8ean Call   £0.18 £0.56 £4.44
YOUNG_GUN Call   £0.18 £0.74 £3.42
Talon Call   £0.18 £0.92 £15.64
tinman1958 Call   £0.18 £1.10 £1.84
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 10
  • 8
     
wba157 All-in   £0.80 £1.90 £0.00
8aked8ean Call   £0.80 £2.70 £3.64
YOUNG_GUN All-in   £3.42 £6.12 £0.00

Comments

  • edited July 2010
      Ok interesting hand here. A bit of history Preflop raiser is very aggro both pre and post flop and i had been running like god for the previos 10 mins.

      So the question is what would you do in my situation and why.
  • edited July 2010

    Question,

     does the approx 2% per out per card rule apply in Omaha?

  • edited July 2010
    Im guessing fold as someone will hit their 8 to get a full house with there 78 :P

    wasnt me btw ppl see my post in the omaha thread
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha WWYD:
    Well even with my very limited omaha knowledge, I would fold as my hand can basically not improve.  It could also very easily already be behind and I always want to get my money in first or ahead and in this situation, I wouldn't feel comfortable that either of those is the case.
    Posted by phil12uk
    Hero's flopped the nuts. We're only behind statistically against other J9xx hands that have redraws, strictly speaking we can't be behind at the moment.

    @OP: I fold pre-flop, I go all-in on the flop because i'm not experienced enough yet to fold the nuts. When i'm a better player, I fold.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha WWYD:
    In Response to Re: Omaha WWYD : Hero's flopped the nuts. We're only behind statistically against other J9xx hands that have redraws, strictly speaking we can't be behind at the moment. @OP: I fold pre-flop, I go all-in on the flop because i'm not experienced enough yet to fold the nuts. When i'm a better player, I fold.
    Posted by YoungUn
    That's why i still suck!!! Can't even read flops properly ;)

    Nix my last comment and shovel it in.  Can't fold nuts for fear of redraw.
  • edited July 2010

    Ok 1/47   (52-2-3) = .0213

    1/45 (52-4-3)  = .022

    So not much diff


    I am tempted to call. You have nuts right now, and your holding of an extra jack decreases the chances of others holding one, there could be a 6-9 in the mix. If 2 of them have flush draws they are reducing the pool of spades available.  If someone is on 2 prs they have only 4 outs (17% ish) if some has a set they have 7 outs now increasing to 10 on the turn (37% chance ish)

  • edited July 2010
    This seems a stack off multiway depending on how tight the oppos are.

    we're behind hu against J9**, 1:3 with JTT9, 1:2 J9A6ss, and 1:5 vs TT**+J9**


    as long as they aren't nitty nits go gogogogo


    we're 3:7 hu with J9ss**, and <1:4 vs 3 way J9ss**+77**

    edit you should also always take into the account you're running hotts!
  • edited July 2010
    I was watching my mate play PLO few weeks ago and he folded the nuts on the flop... I don't really play omaha so i dont understand, why would you fold the nut straight? Are redraws that powerful in omaha that you have to consider folding the nut straight?
  • edited July 2010
     Ok i let this run for a bit and now i shall give you my thinking on the hand.

     Several thoughts occured immediately, namely that i wasnt certain to win even with a call because a split pot was quite possible and secondly that i had a dead hand with no possible redraws.

      With no cards to hit that are good for me i then look to the cards i dont want to see.

    Firstly 7 spades
             3 7's
             3 8's
             2 9's
             3 T's
             1 J

        Making a total of 19 bad cards for me to avoid with 2 streets left to go.


      So the decision is do i call for a possible split pot whilst hoping to avoid up to 19 cards over 2 streets?

      For me this was the easiest fold going. In omaha you need to be able to lay down the second or third nuts at times and this is one occasion when folding the nuts is the correct move.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha WWYD:
     Ok i let this run for a bit and now i shall give you my thinking on the hand.  Several thoughts occured immediately, namely that i wasnt certain to win even with a call because a split pot was quite possible and secondly that i had a dead hand with no possible redraws.   With no cards to hit that are good for me i then look to the cards i dont want to see. Firstly 7 spades          3 7's          3 8's          2 9's          3 T's          1 J     Making a total of 19 bad cards for me to avoid with 2 streets left to go.   So the decision is do i call for a possible split pot whilst hoping to avoid up to 19 cards over 2 streets?   For me this was the easiest fold going. In omaha you need to be able to lay down the second or third nuts at times and this is one occasion when folding the nuts is the correct move.
    Posted by Talon
    OK help me out here then Talon please........

    Ur sat with the absolute nuts at time of money going in and the timer is running (quite quickly as well)

    How can u work through this extremely quickly in omaha and know that folding the nuts is the correct move?
  • edited July 2010
    Cos you can, and with 3 oppos this is the easiest fold in foldsville.dav
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha WWYD:
    I was watching my mate play PLO few weeks ago and he folded the nuts on the flop... I don't really play omaha so i dont understand, why would you fold the nut straight? Are redraws that powerful in omaha that you have to consider folding the nut straight?
    Posted by BlackFish3

    did you not read my post above?!?

    look at the equities we have with the nuts against different ranges.


    this is a close fold if the players aren't great but if they are nut peddling it is closer to a fold than a call.

    sick sick game.


    love the preflop aspect of it though!
  • edited July 2010
    soz i work in percentages beaneh get rele confused by odds in a ratio form for some reason. Always have always will :(
  • edited July 2010
     In answer to phils question.

      I obviously did not have time to work out all the outs in question. I had to make my decision on several factors in that short space of time. Although i had the nuts i knew thatmy hand was also dead. I realsied that i would have to dodge a large number of outs to houses, flushes and higher straights.(the actual number of outs i worked out later but knew there were a lot).

      In conjunction with the fact that i only had a small amount invested in the pot and was already facing 3 way action before me, my first reaction was to think that even if i dodged all the outs i would only be getting a split out of it which would reduce my percentage winrate to a point where the fold seemed to be the only logical course of action.

      If this were NLHE i could not get my money in quickly enough knowing all those outs would not be viable but in a multiway omaha pot you have to consider that every draw possible is out against you.My biggest friend while i play omaha is Mr Paranoia who has saved me from a lot of bad calls before and this time he was screaming at me to fold.
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