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Bluff the river?

edited July 2010 in The Poker Clinic
No reads, I`m not sure what I would be repping if I bluffed, but I also dont wanna give this up.
Lorno Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £94.01
OMahonyO Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £91.53
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • A
     
Lorno Raise  £1.75 £2.50 £92.26
OMahonyO Raise  £6.00 £8.50 £85.53
Lorno Call  £4.50 £13.00 £87.76
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 8
  • 8
     
OMahonyO Bet  £9.00 £22.00 £76.53
Lorno Call  £9.00 £31.00 £78.76
Turn
   
  • 3
     
OMahonyO Check     
Lorno Check     
River
   
  • Q
   

Comments

  • edited July 2010
    Were you starting your  bluff preflop?


    I doubt you fold out much you are losing to and nothing worse calls.
  • edited July 2010
    villian has missed a trick by not putting you away on the turn, the fact he checks behind suggests he cant have the greatest hand either but its also now very hard for you to get credit for anything because of your check also. i think your almost definatly losing this hand and if your gonna bet the river make it around £25 and hope the villian aint the greatest hand reader. but personally i let this go now, you should have bet the turn.
  • edited July 2010
    id be really tempted to c/c river tbh
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    id be really tempted to c/c river tbh
    Posted by LOL_RAISE

    Really?

    Is that a joke?
  • edited July 2010

    he has 99/tt or u have best hand when he bets river, i dont give a random credit for being able to value bet 7x here, his only heart draws would be combo with straight draws and is most likely betting turn when you check. id expect him to c back a lot of the time here with a weakish hand that is better than yours but if he bets i think you are good quite alot of the time. i dont like you betting because your perceived value range here is only AQ & KQ so you will get looked up v lightly.

  • edited July 2010
    I probably c/c too, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we had the best hand.
  • edited July 2010

    I'd fire out potsize bet here, you could easily have played 7s or AQ here

    the fact the opponent hasnt bet at all suggests that he hasnt hit unless on the river, pot size or 3/4 pot and expect him to fold like a mo fo

    unless hes hit the river with kq, aq himself then he's only calling so take a punt

  • edited July 2010
    C/C is crazy if your willing to call a bet why not just bet yourself then you have two ways to win pot but by c/c you can only win with the best hand which is very slim here, if your going to check then its a c/f or c/r.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    C/C is crazy if your willing to call a bet why not just bet yourself then you have two ways to win pot but by c/c you can only win with the best hand which is very slim here, if your going to check then its a c/f or c/r.
    Posted by TopTopGun
    I c/c because I feel we have the best hand when villain bets the river. How many hands can he bet the river with that call the flop and check behind on the river? Very few that beat us IMO. As LOL_RAISE says, he can only really value bet with 99 or TT with the way he's played the hand, many other hands that beat us will probably check back.

    We don't bet with A high (for value) because we're only getting called with hands that we beat, so we're losing money in the long run.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river? : I c/c because I feel we have the best hand when villain bets the river. How many hands can he bet the river with that call the flop and check behind on the river? Very few that beat us IMO. As LOL_RAISE says, he can only really value bet with 99 or TT with the way he's played the hand, many other hands that beat us will probably check back. We don't bet with A high (for value) because we're only getting called with hands that we beat, so we're losing money in the long run.
    Posted by YoungUn
    loooool as if!!

    Still waiting to see one of these hero calls - that wud even be a super hero call!!

    Don't u want my 50p??

    I canny believe u check call with Ace ten high (again, he's bluffing with better hands) - and u c/c OR bet call with the deuces in my thread, yet ur in 2 minds with QQ on a 5 high flop at nl8!

    Are u seeeereeee-arse??
  • edited July 2010
    If check calling, how much are we willing to call?
  • edited July 2010

    £18+.



    il try and find some hero calls later DOHHH cant atm because anti virus stuff is running.

  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river? : loooool as if!! Still waiting to see one of these hero calls - that wud even be a super hero call!! Don't u want my 50p?? I canny believe u check call with Ace ten high (again, he's bluffing with better hands) - and u c/c OR bet call with the deuces in my thread, yet ur in 2 minds with QQ on a 5 high flop at nl8! Are u seeeereeee-arse??
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Okay, for a start, the opponent's in this hand and in your hand are taking completely different lines than the line my opponent took in the QQ hand I posted. The hands played out completely differently, trying to say my QQ hand is similar in any way to this one and your one is ridiculous. And, please, keep this on-topic. OMahonyO doesn't deserve to have his thread taken off the rails because you seem to have a problem with someone's opinion.

    To respond in a way that keeps this on-topic, this isn't exactly a hero call, since we're playing heads-up. I'll assume that you didn't realise that before you posted, because anyone else will understand that both players in a HU game get to the river with no pair a fair amount of the time - so calling with AT high here isn't much of a hero call. And, he may be bluffing with better, but the amount of hands that he bluffs with that we beat is much greater than the amount of hands that he bluffs with which beat us.

    IMO.
  • edited July 2010
    Villain called 3bet pre, hands i would be putting him on are A10+, 22 to JJ, 56s+ and broadway cards which we are still behind 73% of the time.

    What do you think he has that justifys a call on the river?

  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river? : Okay, for a start, the opponent's in this hand and in your hand are taking completely different lines than the line my opponent took in the QQ hand I posted. The hands played out completely differently, trying to say my QQ hand is similar in any way to this one and your one is ridiculous. And, please, keep this on-topic. OMahonyO doesn't deserve to have his thread taken off the rails because you seem to have a problem with someone's opinion. To respond in a way that keeps this on-topic, this isn't exactly a hero call, since we're playing heads-up. I'll assume that you didn't realise that before you posted, because anyone else will understand that both players in a HU game get to the river with no pair a fair amount of the time - so calling with AT high here isn't much of a hero call. And, he may be bluffing with better, but the amount of hands that he bluffs with that we beat is much greater than the amount of hands that he bluffs with which beat us. IMO.
    Posted by YoungUn

    Im sure he wont mind.

    2 things.,....

    It might be a heads up pot, but its a 6 max table, so you aren't inclined to play every hand. Therefore it's more likely the villain has a strong holding(pair)

    Secondly, people seem absolutely obsessed by opponents....I mean, I know the old saying is u shud "play the player" - but it's a card game at the end of the day, ur opponent is there to make it hard for u, just ignore him :)


    If ur constantly reacting to what ur opponent does, and ur opponent knows this, it's gonna be so easy for him to walk all over u.  (your QQ hand)


    Another saying "find a better spot" - I know for sure there are better spots to win/burn money than check calling the river here.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    Villain called 3bet pre, hands i would be putting him on are A10+, 22 to JJ, 56s+ and broadway cards which we are still behind 73% of the time. What do you think he has that justifys a call on the river?
    Posted by TopTopGun
    his 3bet flat calling range is not the same as his river betting range here
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river? : his 3bet flat calling range is not the same as his river betting range here
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Could you tell me what you think his river betting range is so i can ge a better idea to where your coming from, thx
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river?:
    In Response to Re: Bluff the river? : It might be a heads up pot, but its a 6 max table, so you aren't inclined to play every hand. Therefore it's more likely the villain has a strong holding(pair) Secondly, people seem absolutely obsessed by opponents....I mean, I know the old saying is u shud "play the player" - but it's a card game at the end of the day, ur opponent is there to make it hard for u, just ignore him :) If ur constantly reacting to what ur opponent does, and ur opponent knows this, it's gonna be so easy for him to walk all over u.  (your QQ hand) Another saying "find a better spot" - I know for sure there are better spots to win/burn money than check calling the river here.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Look at the HH again. The villain is on the button AND posts the SB. There are no other names in the HH. This is was a HU hand from start to finish. It may have been on a 6-max table, but it is no different to sitting on a HU table because only 2 players had been involved from the start. Therefore it's less likely that the villain has a strong holding (pair).

    I would also argue that, when you're playing HU, you "play the player" a lot more than you play your own cards. If you're not "obssessed" with your opponent's tendancies in a HU game, then you shouldn't be playing in one (I know that you're not the one playing in a HU game, so that comment isn't being directed at you).

    And yes, it is a card game, but if you don't pay attention to the way your opponents play then you will lose a lot of money in the long run. I know that's not strictly true on most levels on Sky, as playing ABC should be able to make you a profit on most levels here, but there is a necessity to study your opponents closely on any level.
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