A complete break required???

walesboy

I'm having a bad time of it at the moment. getting a bit disallusioned.
Lost about a quarter of my roll in past couple of weeks, and it's difficult at the best of times to build a roll on the 2p/4p levels I can afford.
Standard luck - pairs - QQ to AA being beaten by straights afte rallin pre; 2 pairs on flops been beaten by flopped straights allin with non connecting cards in hand; flopped strights been beaten by better ones on river allin, etc..........
Don't know what to do?  THe allins were considered ones after reading opponents who would and had been calling with not much to others.
Started earlier in the month, and took advice. Moved to freerolls (where have the midday ones gone by the way) and DYMs to get some enjoyment back. Moved back to cash after a week or so. But the run has continued.

I know its the Poker Gods taking back some of the winnings I made earlier in the year, but they don't need to be so harsh! You get lucky sometimes and so do your opponents.

Is it best to have a complete break - no poker at all - or do freerolls, etc.?

lynx3ffect

only have a break if you're playing bad, if you are genuinely running bad and you really are making the right plays then keep playing. if you getting frustrated, turning into a station , chasing losses then have a break

post some HH and u'll get told if ur running bad or playing bad

BananaDog

Hi Walesboy, I would take lynx3ffects advice and post some of the hands that you lost with.

People were saying to me that I was just running bad (and I was to a certain extent) when I started on the cash tables....but a few nights ago hubby and I sat down and went through the hand history. Yes I was also getting aces busted by straights, two pair, flushes etc. but when looked at in closer detail I realised my play after the flop was the thing that was losing me money...after all calling an all in with AA is still only 1 pair :S

I've mooched about and read a little now and am ready to start properly again, but I now know where to look more carefully at what range of hands could be beating me and would the opponent be likely to be playing them.

Don't give up yet but post a few hands first so you can look more clearly at the pre/post flop play.
GL M8 x

dav1964

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

only have a break if you're playing bad, if you are genuinely running bad and you really are making the right plays then keep playing. if you getting frustrated, turning into a station , chasing losses then have a break post some HH and u'll get told if ur running bad or playing bad
Posted by lynx3ffect

THIS, also get away from this level as soon as you can because it is full of gamblers just havin a bit of fun.Gl mate dav

oynutter

Why not try some deep stack tournaments-- the 2.20 ones are great value, and you know you can only lose 2.20-- 5000 chips-- 12 min blinds-- can't go wrong innit!!

lynx3ffect

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

Why not try some deep stack tournaments-- the 2.20 ones are great value, and you know you can only lose 2.20-- 5000 chips-- 12 min blinds-- can't go wrong innit!!
Posted by oynutter

are you on commission for them!? i swear i read an identical post by you in another thread!

dav1964

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

In Response to Re: A complete break required??? : are you on commission for them!? i swear i read an identical post by you in another thread!
Posted by lynx3ffect

Yes indeed you may well have seen 1 or 2 threads promoting the said tourny.So dont forget £2.20,5000 chips and a 12 minute clock you cant go wrong pal ;o)

walesboy

thanks guys.

dav1964 - trying to get away but can't afford to! May take a while but I'll do it.
oynutter - thanks, I'll try it, but difficult to play in the evenings. Once I buy in, where do I post the commission to??

Right, now to go and try and post hands. Not good with this technology business - maybe I should ask my 7 and 4 year old kids to help me!

dav1964

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

thanks guys. dav1964 - trying to get away but can't afford to! May take a while but I'll do it. oynutter - thanks, I'll try it, but difficult to play in the evenings. Once I buy in, where do I post the commission to?? Right, now to go and try and post hands. Not good with this technology business - maybe I should ask my 7 and 4 year old kids to help me!
Posted by walesboy

Great idea about using ure youngsters i also use mine for this reason ;o)

kiewoods

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

In Response to Re: A complete break required??? : are you on commission for them!? i swear i read an identical post by you in another thread!
Posted by lynx3ffect

haha i know! im sure he pockets the rake from them!

N1CK

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

only have a break if you're playing bad, if you are genuinely running bad and you really are making the right plays then keep playing. if you getting frustrated, turning into a station , chasing losses then have a break post some HH and u'll get told if ur running bad or playing bad
Posted by lynx3ffect

good advice + you have to accept variance its part of the game the key is not to tilt and spew even more money, you really have to keep these losses to a minimum and maximize your winnings when you run good, one of the biggest leaks of most players even at much higher levels than you play is not getting max value on their hands.

walesboy

Right,here goes. xxx	Sit out		Amount	Pot	Balance
walesboy	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.73
xxx1	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£0.97
	Your hole cards	9 7
yyyy	Fold
zzzz	Fold
xxx2	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£6.26
walesboy	Call		£0.02	£0.12	£3.71
xxx1	Check
Flop
		7 9 8
walesboy	Bet		£0.04	£0.16	£3.67
xxx1	Fold
xxx2	Raise		£0.24	£0.40	£6.02
walesboy	All-in		£3.67	£4.07	£0.00
xxx2	Call		£3.47	£7.54	£2.55
walesboy	Show	9 7
xxx2	Show	10 J
Turn
		J
River
		J
xxx2	Win	Straight to the Jack	£6.98		£9.53

The guy had been loose in the past, raising,reraising,etc. More often than not when called he didn't have the hand or folded. Took my shot, and unfortunately he had it. But, too agressive?

Next hand - how to play low pocket pair?

xxxx	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.84
yyyy	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.52
	Your hole cards	5 5
zzzz	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.74
4dogs	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.76
walesboy	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£1.69
xxxx	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£1.82
yyyy	Check
Flop
		5 2 4
xxxx	Check
yyyy	Check
zzzz	Bet		£0.04	£0.24	£4.70
aaaa	Call		£0.04	£0.28	£1.72
walesboy	Raise		£0.16	£0.44	£1.53
xxxx	Call		£0.16	£0.60	£1.66
yyyy	Call		£0.16	£0.76	£1.36
zzzz	Call		£0.12	£0.88	£4.58
aaaa	Fold
Turn
		9
xxxx	Check
yyyy	Check
zzzz	Bet		£0.16	£1.04	£4.42
walesboy	All-in		£1.53	£2.57	£0.00
xxxx	Fold
yyyy	Fold
zzzz	Raise		£2.74	£5.31	£1.68
zzzz	Unmatched bet		£1.37	£3.94	£3.05
zzzz	Show	3 6
walesboy	Show	5 5
River
		J
zzzz	Win	Straight to the 6	£3.65		£6.70

Again too agressive? Maybe I'm trying too hard and to get back losses?

Third hand - bet bigger?

xxxx	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.28
yyyy	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.97
zzzz	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£1.56
	Your hole cards	J J
walesboy	Raise		£0.12	£0.22	£6.18
zzzz	Fold
aaaa	Call		£0.12	£0.34	£1.13
bbbb	Fold
xxxx	Call		£0.10	£0.44	£3.18
yyyy	Fold
Flop
		2 6 6
xxxx	Check
walesboy	Bet		£0.12	£0.56	£6.06
aaaa	Call		£0.12	£0.68	£1.01
xxxx	Fold
Turn
		4
walesboy	Bet		£0.16	£0.84	£5.90
aaaa	Call		£0.16	£1.00	£0.85
River
		Q
walesboy	Check
aaaa	Check
walesboy	Show	J J
aaaa	Show	Q K
aaaa	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 6s	£0.93		£1.78

Finally, I don't know what else I could have done. Put him on AJ or another high ace.JJ a possible but previously when had such a hand he'd betted way over the top and showed cards at end when not called.

xxx	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.50
cccc	Sitout
aaaa	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	K K
yyyy	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£1.64
walesboy	Call		£0.20	£0.46	£4.43
xxxx	Fold
aaaa	Call		£0.16	£0.62	£3.80
Flop
		J 5 3
aaaa	Check
yyyy	Bet		£0.20	£0.82	£1.44
walesboy	Call		£0.20	£1.02	£4.23
aaaa	Fold
Turn
		6
yyyy	Bet		£0.24	£1.26	£1.20
walesboy	Call		£0.24	£1.50	£3.99
River
		A
yyyy	Bet		£0.28	£1.78	£0.92
walesboy	Call		£0.28	£2.06	£3.71
yyyy	Show	A 10
walesboy	Muck	K K
yyyy	Win	Pair of Aces	£1.91		£2.83

Only, time for posting these now. On hols for a couple of weeks from today.
Once I have time I'll post more.
Looking back has helped a bit though, as sometimes I think I don't give as much thought to their possible range as I should.
Thanks in advance for the advice. No need to be gentle. I'm welsh, I'm used to the abuse!!

walesboy

bump
guys?

beaneh

first few are annoying the last two I like how you played, they the card they needed (it happens).

bet bigger with the 97/55 initially.

DeucesLive

most of those hands are purely unlucky, but I don't like the last two in my opinion- you're at a limit where calling is natural with Q high, so when you hit the monster hands- raise them heavy.

When you get raised pre with KK, calling is an option, but when you get bet into on the flop- that's the time to raise it up. Then on the turn, you want to be allin (my opinion) whilst you're fairly sure you're ahead. Sure, if he calls he spikes the ace, but you know that you've got your money in good and 90% of the time you're winning in that situation.

Same with the hand before- raise it much bigger whilst the jacks look good, and make sure that when the chips go in- you've got the best chance of being ahead. If you get sucked out on river, such is life. Good job on slowing down when the Q came though, you obviously had a fairly good handle on his range. But with JJ you want to get a wege on the flop from overcards, then take the pot down on the turn with an uncallable bet without a hand- and if they DO call with A high, make a note and sit at their table every single time you see them.

F_Ivanovic

first hand - 97 isn't that strong on such a board especially when there's been no action pre-flop. Anybody could have anything here. Bet bigger on the flop, maybe call the re-raise and re-evaluate on the turn.

Not much you can do about the 55 hand, apart from raising pre which then should get rid of these types of hands. But can understand limping if you're not happy with your post flop game and would rather just bink a set.

JJ hand... bet bigger on flop and turn. You need to be betting 2/3 of pot roughly on both streets.

KK hand.. fine to slowplay pre. Depends on opponent, if you think he'll call a 3bet then you should be 3betting. Also I'd only call flop if you think he's very bluffy and will bluff flop/turn/river. Otherwise at this level, just raise up the flop and get it in ASAP.

The_Don90

first hand - 97 - fold pre flop in my opinion. Like your self Walesboy ive had so much trouble at NL4 and find if i flop two pair with these kinds of hands i have nothing but a headace. (also look at N1CK's post for me very good analysis for NL4 and also states DO NOT PLAY YOUR OPPONENT) Helped me alot. I fold most of my SB hands and check most BB hands.

Second hand- 55 - Make it nearer 20p pre flop, make this a standard raise usually gets it down to HU. On the flop is fine, slow down on the turn, so many callers on the flop and the board hasnt paired you only have 4th to the nuts and at NL4 people will come with A3 or suited card which unfortunetly covers 63.

Third hand - JJ - Why only 12p pre flop? this allows multiple opponents in very cheap. These guy dont really care and if they going to have overs make em pay. Flop and turn are also killers here, your bets are far too weak, pot it. The 12p screams ive not hit the flop and im scared.

Forth hand - KK - Pre flop add another 4x style bet over the top. Again though the flop you show weakness, make these guys pay, eventually they will fold or miss their miricle cards. Pot bets are the key 3/4 of the pot at the least. should they call all the way down then fair enough your unlucky and you lose a little more, but when they do miss/ call flop fold turn you take a little more.

DeucesLive

In Response to Re: A complete break required???:

first hand - 97 - fold pre flop in my opinion. Like your self Walesboy ive had so much trouble at NL4 and find if i flop two pair with these kinds of hands i have nothing but a headace. (also look at N1CK's post for me very good analysis for NL4 and also states DO NOT PLAY YOUR OPPONENT ) Helped me alot. I fold most of my SB hands and check most BB hands. Second hand- 55 - Make it nearer 20p pre flop, make this a standard raise usually gets it down to HU. On the flop is fine, slow down on the turn, so many callers on the flop and the board hasnt paired you only have 4th to the nuts and at NL4 people will come with A3 or suited card which unfortunetly covers 63. Third hand - JJ - Why only 12p pre flop? this allows multiple opponents in very cheap. These guy dont really care and if they going to have overs make em pay. Flop and turn are also killers here, your bets are far too weak, pot it. The 12p screams ive not hit the flop and im scared. Forth hand - KK - Pre flop add another 4x style bet over the top. Again though the flop you show weakness, make these guys pay, eventually they will fold or miss their miricle cards. Pot bets are the key 3/4 of the pot at the least. should they call all the way down then fair enough your unlucky and you lose a little more, but when they do miss/ call flop fold turn you take a little more.
Posted by The_Don90

Only disagree with this part, the players don't think that hard about what you may have. What you should be thinking is- if they have overs, they will chase them if they think it's cheap enough, and assume they are ahead if they hit. Therefore keeping bets relatively small with a set is fine (provided there's no obvious draws you've put them on), but with a single pair (and a vulnerable one at that) you need to push them a lot harder. If they call you with A high, great- if they don't, you've got the pot uncontested. But if they do call you with A high, the bigger bet ensures you're winning a lot more in the long run.

walesboy

thanks guys