bottom set on tricky board

huuuuume

history - i have been playing very tight on this table and won one big hand where i flopped top 2 pair with AJ and got paid off.  i have raised the majority of buttons that have folded to me and have met resistance approximately 50% of the time from either bb or sb.

no reads at all on villain so have no real range for what he could be defending with.  i dont even think i have played with villain before and he is not a reg.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
muscles	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£21.29
xx	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£16.62
	Your hole cards	3 3
motherflip	Fold
daddygood	Fold
huuuuume	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£60.32
muscles	Fold
xx	Call		£0.90	£2.55	£15.72
Flop
		5 6 3
xx	Check
huuuuume	Bet		£1.50	£4.05	£58.82
xx	Call		£1.50	£5.55	£14.22
Turn
		8
xx	Check
huuuuume	Bet		£4.50	£10.05	£54.32
xx	Raise		£11.78	£21.83	£2.44

obviously a tricky board with both straight and flush draws.  i wish i had checked behind but as i was multi tabling i was auto betting for value and hoping to price out the flush and straight draws

what do we think villain has?
what is our move here?

any thoughts on how i played any of the streets?

OMahonyO

I`m calling it off.  Some ppl at this level could think they are being dead clever by flatting ur raise with a big pair.  They could have 2pr, fd.  He has 2quid behind so just stick him in.  If he is beating you the board will pair on the river.

Right or wrong, I`m playin it exactly the same. and sticking it in on the river.

TopTopGun

Think you played it perfect, your getting 4:1 on your money get it in he only has £2 odd left, looks like 78 or maybe overpair, if your behind then you may still have outs.

N1CK

when this happens on the turn your nearly always behind with a TPTK hand, ok you got bottom set it may as well be TPTK your only + is you have a redraw but it could be worthless, if you fold in these spots you will save more money than you win so its a fold, you played the hand ok, i would have bet a bit more on the flop,

just noticed how much he has left behind id have to look him up here but if you both started off 100BBs the above

LOL_RAISE

raise smaller pre, bet bigger on flop, snap shove turn

lynx3ffect

In Response to Re: bottom set on tricky board:

raise smaller pre, bet bigger on flop, snap shove turn
Posted by LOL_RAISE

+1, he doesnt have enuf behind to be bothered about, still pair/combo hands we ahead of and if not we have enough equity to make our hand given pot odds

GREGHOGG

i agree with bet more on flop and snap shove turn, but can someone please explain why it is better to bet less preflop?

I thought that it was better to vary the size of preflop raises, and that 4x is fine?

zing

4x on button is kinda stupid as you're already guaranteed position in the hand and only have to get through 2 people to take the pot

plus your main aim is usually to just take the blinds which in this case is 15p+30p = 45 so you're risking 1.20 for 45p rather than if you made it 3x pre where you're risking 90 to win 45 so the success rate of the steal of blinds can be considerably smaller by betting a little less making it more profitable with most people calling whether is 90p or 1.20 so you're just wasting a BB every time unless:

1) the blinds are big fish who play fit or fold post so it's more profitable to raise larger as you can just take it away with a cbet

2)your range on the button is still very tight so your range is still 100% value

3) n other rdm reasons

N1CK

you can x4 from the button you really dont mind getting a call more money post flop, i do agree that with short stacks in the blind raising smaller is a better option, but if your just intent on stealing the blinds if he will call 3 he will call 4 so make it 3 and make a saving

OMahonyO

At this lvl, I dont see why you need to vary your pfr size.  Choose an amount wether it be 3x or 4x and use it whatever ur hand or position.  No need to complicate things

waynec

In Response to Re: bottom set on tricky board:

At this lvl, I dont see why you need to vary your pfr size.  Choose an amount wether it be 3x or 4x and use it whatever ur hand or position.  No need to complicate things
Posted by OMahonyO

This is good advise if you bet same every time you dont give any reads

huuuuume

i bet the same amount pre flop every time so as not to give away the strength of my hand. 

i like the idea of betting bigger on the flop as i try to always c-bet the same amount but if i bet a larger amount when i have stronger hands am i not giving away the strength of my hand?

i have lost the hand histroy for the hand so cant show you the end in the normal format but i reraised and put villain all in.  he snap called with 74 suited in spades so he flopped the nut straight with the open ended straight flush draw and flush draw.  he held on the river

this hand would be so much more difficult if he was deeper.

had i bet more on the flop and villain reraised are we getting away from the hand?

N1CK

In Response to Re: bottom set on tricky board:

i bet the same amount pre flop every time so as not to give away the strength of my hand.  i like the idea of betting bigger on the flop as i try to always c-bet the same amount but if i bet a larger amount when i have stronger hands am i not giving away the strength of my hand? i have lost the hand histroy for the hand so cant show you the end in the normal format but i reraised and put villain all in.  he snap called with 74 suited in spades so he flopped the nut straight with the open ended straight flush draw and flush draw.  he held on the river this hand would be so much more difficult if he was deeper. had i bet more on the flop and villain reraised are we getting away from the hand?
Posted by huuuuume

yeah its good not to change your betting amounts against good opponents as they will pick up on this know how weak/strong your hand is and be able to play perfect against you, against bad players who are on a level1 way of thinking (they only think about their cards and don't pay attention to anything else) then you can change  your bet sizing,
its hard to get away from this hand on the flop as there are lots of draws he can have, but the way it was played you can fold the turn if he had more money behind imo

LOL_RAISE

i dont change the betsizing preflop depending on what hand i have, i change it depending on what position i am in, and what opponents i have behind me. 3x utg-CO 3x otb and minraise if there are shorties in the blinds

N1CK

In Response to Re: bottom set on tricky board:

i dont change the betsizing preflop depending on what hand i have, i change it depending on what position i am in, and what opponents i have behind me. 3x utg-CO 3x otb and minraise if there are shorties in the blinds
Posted by LOL_RAISE

are you betting smaller pre vs shorties because they have shove tendencies and also so you dont price yourself in with your c-bets or any other reasons?