Odds and draws and stuff I'm too lazy to learn...

DOHHHHHHH

It's a mahooooooosive raise, shud I be calling off here? Especially with the other geezer still in who may call.
I think the guy behind also has a draw.....How shud this effect my decision? - e cud have my draws crushed....

I don't really like gambling, as I always lose/miss...

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
GalwayAce	Sit out
HOVE_PARK	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£27.37
DOHHHHHHH	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£41.44
	Your hole cards	K 4
penn	Fold
tempusfuge	Fold
dunn11	Call		£0.30	£0.75	£30.83
HOVE_PARK	Call		£0.15	£0.90	£27.22
DOHHHHHHH	Check
Flop
		3 6 5
HOVE_PARK	Bet		£0.90	£1.80	£26.32
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£2.93	£4.73	£38.51
dunn11	Call		£2.93	£7.66	£27.90
HOVE_PARK	All-in		£26.32	£33.98	£0.00
DOHHHHHHH

LOL_RAISE

yes

waynec

Str8 & flush draw 2-1 fav but hard call ...... be being a wimp would fold here cus I never hit draws and when I do they have the nut draw lol

harvey23

if you dont want to stack off on the flop, call, if you do want to stack off, raise.

Talon

 2 words for you. Limpers Tax


  Dont let people limp in on your big blind and then make your flop decision harder because you have no idea about ranges, especially with a limper from the SB who can make up with any 2 cards.

waynec

In Response to Re: Odds and draws and stuff I'm too lazy to learn...:

 2 words for you. Limpers Tax   Dont let people limp in on your big blind and then make your flop decision harder because you have no idea about ranges, especially with a limper from the SB who can make up with any 2 cards.
Posted by Talon

Blind on blind yes raise but dealer has flat called why?

harvey23

In Response to Re: Odds and draws and stuff I'm too lazy to learn...:

 2 words for you. Limpers Tax   Dont let people limp in on your big blind and then make your flop decision harder because you have no idea about ranges, especially with a limper from the SB who can make up with any 2 cards.
Posted by Talon

raising here with K4s is bad esp with a button limper too, the hand is just too weak to be rasing.

TopTopGun

With him having two pair and re-draw you are still 50/50 on this hand and odds are offering just over that so i would have to make call.

waynec

In Response to Re: Odds and draws and stuff I'm too lazy to learn...:

With him having two pair and re-draw you are still 50/50 on this hand and odds are offering just over that so i would have to make call.
Posted by TopTopGun

Call £23 to win £33 at 50/50 is this really good odds to call?

DOHHHHHHH

PLUS the guy behind who is left to act has shown interest in the pot.

Is this a positive as it will boost the odds and the return if I hit?

Or a negative, as he may have the better flush draw?

I think he adds something to the hand being left to act behind, what do u think?

TopTopGun

Ok heres your odds if both players have big hands with no hearts in them.

Hove: 3c 6s  10%
Dunn: 5d 5c  47%
You: Kh 4h   43%

So its now an easy call as you getting 2:1 on money.

DOHHHHHHH

And if one has 5 5, and the other AQ of hearts?

TopTopGun

Then your fecked at 16% but do you really think he has AQh with you having two hearts yourself and there being no raise pre flop.

waynec

If the guy guy behind you calls which your call would give him odds to do so with half a hand you have your 3-1 plus on your money making a gamble worth while at 50/50 even if dunn11 goes all in after your call. IMO!

I think as regards the better flush draw once you have your 3-1 makes no difference if they have so be it, maybe villian has 7h8h a great hand for semi bluff with this board.

DOHHHHHHH

Oay ace 2 of hearts then.

Thats a hand people wud limp and/or call with pre to see a flop as ur drawing to the nuts.

The only decision in the hand really is to make sure my king high flush draw is live, and no1 has the flopped nuts.

TopTopGun

Come on Dohhh he is on the button and it has been folded to him do you think he is limping with a suited Ace here.

DOHHHHHHH

He was limping with any hand he wanted to play, other than AA/KK/QQ...... very passive....

If you look at the action on the flop, theres a donk lead from Hove, I raise it, to build the pot with my huge draw, and Dunn JUST calls on the most draw heavy board in the world.

WHAT hands cud he possibly be just calling with here?

The answer.....is a DRAW.

It wud be insane to slow play a big made hand on this board, facing a bet and a raise.

TopTopGun

His range here with him limping on the button are suited connectors, one gap suited connectors and unsuited connectors. I wouldnt say he has Ax suited as its too strong on the button when folded to you.

yb

In Response to Re: Odds and draws and stuff I'm too lazy to learn...:

He was limping with any hand he wanted to play, other than AA/KK/QQ...... very passive.... If you look at the action on the flop, theres a donk lead from Hove, I raise it, to build the pot with my huge draw, and Dunn JUST calls on the most draw heavy board in the world. WHAT hands cud he possibly be just calling with here? The answer.....is a DRAW. It wud be insane to slow play a big made hand on this board, facing a bet and a raise.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I think you're right that he probably has a draw here (or just a 6 if he's a complete station), but if he's a passive fish there are plenty of draws that he could overcall with that you have crushed as well.

DOHHHHHHH

The limp is typical of a normal nl30 player, theres more limping in these games than there is in the fracture clinic.

I did make the call, believing a king high flush draw is more than likely gonna be higher than most flusg draws he has, eg, 89hh.

I believed he did have a flush draw, and although he has 2 of my outs, the added price I wud get shud he call, wud make up for having less outs.

Hove had 55, predictably he always has a strong hand here, and although the flopped nuts was unlikely, I was pleased to see he didn't have it.

Dunn showed 8-4 offsuit - so had stacked off with only the u/d straight draw, altho he did have the 8 to make the nuts shud the top end hit.

The turn came a 4, and the river a blank, so I missed, and lost, got abit of a sidepot from dunn when the rest went in on the turn. lol

I hate gambling!!! Wheres the racing post?

bandini

I make you a 60% favourite if your draws aren't crushed. (nine hearts, three 7s and three 2s make 15 outs. 15x 4 (2 and 4 rule) = 60%? I'll stand corrected if Mere's about. I know it's not precise but it's as precise as you'll get when you've 15s?).

I think that's enough of an edge to take away the crushed draw possibilities, which seem unlikely. Hove Park on a 4-7 is the biggest fear imo.

I'm putting the mouse through the desk I'm hitting "all-in" so hard.

waynec

UL Dohhhhhhh I think your call was still correct

TopTopGun

Heres the odds,

Hove: 55 60%
Donn: 48 10%
You: K4h 30%

yb

@ Dohh, I'm pretty sure your hand plays better against the flopped nuts than a set

DOHHHHHHH

If I only had a flush draw, and it was only the king high fd, Id instantly fold......

So if he has the nuts, id fold for sure.

Wud u call here yb?

yb

We'd still have 6 extra outs for the split though.

I think I should fold here against this opponent because as you say the worst he shows up with is 33, but in the heat of the moment with oesd + 2nd nfd I'd probably call. But I think for us to have the correct odds we really need dunn to overcall behind so it depends how you think he'd play his draws?

We need about 41.7% equity I think and this is what we got 2 way:

Hand 0:     40.488%      37.61%     02.88%               5585           427.50   { Kh4h }
Hand 1:     59.512%      56.63%     02.88%               8410           427.50   { 66-55, 33, 74s, 42s }


But in reality we probably have a bit less equity than this as dunn could have 2 of our outs if he's on the fd also.

beaneh

How can you not use pokerstove/do basic maths dohhh?!

This is a simple maths problem where reads allow you to make your decision.

Amazing286

Taking a guess I reckon the flop raise is probably bad but that's just my 2 cents.

DOHHHHHHH

I don't think I play enough poker to worry about something so marginal then.....

If its really close (roughly I'm getting the right price) then, I think I shud just call, and win it back if I miss.

As long as it's not a "horrid" call then Im okay with that. Shame I missed tho!! agh.