Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????

waynec

My notes on xx
Calls river with K5off (KA9J2) after raise to his limp pre, calls a lot raises with A/k rags, loose, value bets the nuts 1/3 pot. Raises pre only with biggys

XX not a reckless player but over values weak hands and draws, called a reraise on river with 77 with 4 clubs on the board.... he had no clubs and lost of course.

You now know what I knew! Can we call here and why do you think we should call or fold??????

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ASCOTT	Big blind		£0.10	£0.10	£2.80
	Your hole cards	K J
minty795	Fold
xx	Call		£0.10	£0.20	£15.09
waynecure	Raise		£0.40	£0.60	£29.83
ASCOTT	Call		£0.30	£0.90	£2.50
xx	Call		£0.30	£1.20	£14.79
Flop
		K 6 7
ASCOTT	Check
xx	Bet		£1.20	£2.40	£13.59
waynecure	Raise		£4.80	£7.20	£25.03
ASCOTT	Fold
xx	Call		£3.60	£10.80	£9.99
Turn
		5
xx	All-in		£9.99	£20.79	£0.00
waynecure	????

harvey23

well if your rasing the flop, i guess your plan was to raise get it in. now you pick up more equity on the turn, its a no brainer.

just flat flop if you dont want to get stacks in, simple as in. let me guess, you raised to see where you was.

The_Don90

i probably fold.

Reason being, straights, two pair and a better kicker beating me. Risky senarino.

Having said that there are time when i would have callsed.

However if he plays A or K rags two pair looks to be what you up against and got sucked out on.

CLIOKID

There is an argument for not over-inflating the pot here on the flop and just flatting his donk bet.

Are you folding if he shoves to your flop raise?

bandini

Cash games are tricky, and in my view the true test of a poker player. I'm moving there just as soon as I take down Primo to give me a br.

I'd fold if the turn hadn't been a club.

But with top pair and the flush draw? 2/1 pot odds? I'm calling with alacrity. I put him on a something that's scared of a high club. Easier when you don't have 15s to make a decision, I know.

I assume you lost Wayne? Just bad luck if you did m8.

waynec

On the flop I am happy that i'm ahead he never seems to bet a draw but just calls I feel he has hit a pair as I did, he would have 3bet me on AK pre thats his play. I felt a strong reraise needed on flop.

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

There is an argument for not over-inflating the pot here on the flop and just flatting his donk bet. Are you folding if he shoves to your flop raise?
Posted by CLIOKID

on the flop yes! 90% sure Im ahead at this point with this player and way he plays a hand, if he had 2 pair he normally bets 1/3 of the pot

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

Cash games are tricky, and in my view the true test of a poker player. I'm moving there just as soon as I take down Primo to give me a br. I'd fold if the turn hadn't been a club. But with top pair and the flush draw? 2/1 pot odds? I'm calling with alacrity. I put him on a something that's scared of a high club. Easier when you don't have 15s to make a decision, I know. I assume you lost Wayne? Just bad luck if you did m8.
Posted by bandini

I will post the result when I get a few views

harvey23

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please???????? : on the flop yes! 90% sure Im ahead at this point with this player and way he plays a hand, if he had 2 pair he normally bets 1/3 of the pot
Posted by waynecure

if thats the case the turn changes nothing, unless they hold 89 which is such a small part of there range

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

There is an argument for not over-inflating the pot here on the flop and just flatting his donk bet. Are you folding if he shoves to your flop raise?
Posted by CLIOKID

Correction to my last reply meant Yes I am calling to a shove on the flop as sure I am ahead.... how bad is my thinking here???

christiann

he could of been calling a raise pre with a small pocket pair i.e 6's and hit a set on the flop, his bet on the flop suggests strength to me as he is positive your going to call after you raise pre, the all in on the turn could be that he's weary of flush draws..

if it was me though...i'd call LOL.

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

he could of been calling a raise pre with a small pocket pair i.e 6's and hit a set on the flop, his bet on the flop suggests strength to me as he is positive your going to call after you raise pre, the all in on the turn could be that he's weary of flush draws.. if it was me though...i'd call LOL.
Posted by christiann

I think with a set he would have shoved to my raise as he would want to get his chips in at this point, it was his flat call to the flop reraise I could not work out just did not add up.

TopTopGun

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please???????? : I think with a set he would have shoved to my raise as he would want to get his chips in at this point, it was his flat call to the flop reraise I could not work out just did not add up.
Posted by waynecure

Your right wayne it just doesn't add up, the thing is though with the reads you have on player, it looks like he doesn't know how to value bet so he could be doing this with 89, it also looks like he doesn't understand how strong a pair with flush draws are, so its hard to put him on something like 78s. Maybe he got lucky with a pair of 55 and couldn't lay it down on flop. Don't know mate as he has such a wide cold calling range pre flop its hard to put him on a hand here,

Amazing286

If you're losing it's to two pair. He could have a draw though so I do a cawlsies.

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please???????? : Your right wayne it just doesn't add up, the thing is though with the reads you have on player, it looks like he doesn't know how to value bet so he could be doing this with 89, it also looks like he doesn't understand how strong a pair with flush draws are, so its hard to put him on something like 78s. Maybe he got lucky with a pair of 55 and couldn't lay it down on flop. Don't know mate as he has such a wide cold calling range pre flop its hard to put him on a hand here,
Posted by TopTopGun

My thoughts he has hit 555... why has he not checked raised with a set, dont think this guy would know a flush draw if it kick him in the goolies, so cant work out why he is trying to get me off the hand with a set? Certain this fellow does not understands pot odds so he would not be thinking wayne is getting 3-1 to call so he will, here comes my set nice double up! Nope could still not pin him down to a hand beating mine

waynec

In Response to *headline required!:

If you're losing it's to two pair. He could have a draw though so I do a cawlsies.
Posted by Amazing286

£10 to win £30 hard lay down with a flush draw and top pair

waynec

here is what he had!

I put him on  K rag to be honest when the 5 hit the turn thought K5 he seemed to like this hand, as it turned out it was K8 a premuim hand for xx

Reason for my call 3-1 on my money if he had 2 pair 25% chance of hitting my flush draw, 3 so near as dam 25 cards to help me, was beating most of the K in his range... I had to call. So glad I had good notes on this guy.

Turn
		5
xx	All-in		£9.99	£20.79	£0.00
waynecure	Call		£9.99	£30.78	£15.04
xx	Show	8 K
waynecure	Show	K J
River
		10
waynecure	Win	Pair of Kings	£29.38		£44.42

waynec

of hitting my flush draw, 3 so near


this should read " flush draw, 3 jacks, so dam near 25......

LOL_RAISE

reasoning is fine but the maths part of it is way off, there is only £20 in the pot and £10 for you to call so you are getting 2:1 on your money, you do not include the money you still have to put in the pot.

vs 2pair & set combos that hit the turn (assuming he plays all better flopped hands differently) you have just under 35% equity against a pure value range so it is definately a call when you factor in the random stuff that bad players do.

waynec

In Response to Re: Alas to call or fold plus ur reasons please????????:

reasoning is fine but the maths part of it is way off, there is only £20 in the pot and £10 for you to call so you are getting 2:1 on your money, you do not include the money you still have to put in the pot. vs 2pair & set combos that hit the turn (assuming he plays all better flopped hands differently) you have just under 35% equity against a pure value range so it is definately a call when you factor in the random stuff that bad players do.
Posted by LOL_RAISE

Your correct dont know why I put 3-1 it is 2-1! With this player I called but against many player would have folded, the maths help but I just knew with this hand.