How to lose your stack by overplaying a reasonable starting hand.

Talon

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
WALLY423	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£0.80
Overplayer	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.82
	Your hole cards	2 8 10 10
Talon	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£5.38
WALLY423	Call		£0.06	£0.20	£0.74
Overplayer	Raise		£0.20	£0.40	£5.62
Talon	Call		£0.16	£0.56	£5.22
WALLY423	Fold
Flop
		10 6 J
Overplayer	Bet		£0.56	£1.12	£5.06
Talon	Raise		£2.24	£3.36	£2.98
Overplayer	Call		£1.68	£5.04	£3.38
Turn
		6
Overplayer	Check
Talon	All-in		£2.98	£8.02	£0.00
Overplayer	Call		£2.98	£11.00	£0.40
Overplayer	Show	8 A K A
Talon	Show	2 8 10 10
River
		3
Talon	Win	Full House, 10s and 6s	£10.30		£10.30

Talon

  Ok information on the hand.With the reads on the player i knew that the 3-bet preflop indicated big PP either AA or KK .
  For this reason i flatted preflop knowing that if i missed the flop i could get away with no further loss and if i did hit then i would get a nice double up.

  I have posted this not as any kind of brag but as a demonstration of why you should not have a betting pattern that almost allows your opponent to see your cards and AA no matter how good it is is only one pair if it misses and should not be chsed down the streets like crazy hoping that it is good.

donkeyplop

aaah the joys of 2/4p poker.

nh sir..................

harvey23

is this thread a joke, your starting hand is garbage.  this is 4nl, no one ever folds AAxx at these levels, move up were you will most likely get destroyed

GREGHOGG

Hi Colin,

Maybe you should change the thread title to, "how to get lucky overplaying junk?" 101082 is not great really is it?

Also can you explain why you would min raise with that hand pre please? it seems that you are building a pot with poo, and your only saviour is that you have position. i guess this is the key, right?

thanks

waynec

Agreed Talon! I wont chase str8s, flush draws with a paired board as a general rule depending on my redraws of course, I dont like getting involved with big pots with mid range draws as this hand shows with overplayer not seeing he only had 2 outs for the nuts. WP sir!

waynec

In Response to Re: How to lose your stack by overplaying a reasonable starting hand.:

Hi Colin, Maybe you should change the thread title to, "how to get lucky overplaying junk?" 101082 is not great really is it? Also can you explain why you would min raise with that hand pre please? it seems that you are building a pot with poo, and your only saviour is that you have position. i guess this is the key, right? thanks
Posted by GREGHOGG

This is a good point Colin! The button raise seems fine, the call to the raise was a wee gamble but you do have position.

Talon

 Some very good points there greg.

  Firstly we were only 3 handed at the table so that meant that i felt i could open my range a bit. The preflop raise as everyone should understand was just a pot building raise and i felt that if i was to play what was a marginal hand at best then i would want the possibility of taking down a sizeable pot with it.When playing HU or short handed there should always be a raise preflop to swell up the pot or else you find people playing bad hands and winning insignificant pots.

  Secondly i do not fall into the trap of playing like holdem and if i raise preflop then i do not auto c-bet because that is the easy way to lose massive pots with nothing.This means i am able to get into this style pot cheaply and leave cheaply if i get none of the flop and run into action.

  Position in omaha is not normally used in the same way as NLHE where it is best for seeing where you are and stealing. In omaha position is used for pot control due to the nature of betting draws and protecting sets.Position allows you to decide wether to let the pot get out of control or stay smallish chasing your draws.


  And the reason for calling the 3-bet with a bad hand. Despite being such a bad hand it still had very good nut drawing potential(although not many). So i was left with a gamble for 16p which if i got really lucky would win£5 and if i didnt would not cost me another penny. I will take those odds everyday of the week.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: How to lose your stack by overplaying a reasonable starting hand.:

 Some very good points there greg.   Firstly we were only 3 handed at the table so that meant that i felt i could open my range a bit. The preflop raise as everyone should understand was just a pot building raise and i felt that if i was to play what was a marginal hand at best then i would want the possibility of taking down a sizeable pot with it.When playing HU or short handed there should always be a raise preflop to swell up the pot or else you find people playing bad hands and winning insignificant pots.   Secondly i do not fall into the trap of playing like holdem and if i raise preflop then i do not auto c-bet because that is the easy way to lose massive pots with nothing.This means i am able to get into this style pot cheaply and leave cheaply if i get none of the flop and run into action.   Position in omaha is not normally used in the same way as NLHE where it is best for seeing where you are and stealing. In omaha position is used for pot control due to the nature of betting draws and protecting sets.Position allows you to decide wether to let the pot get out of control or stay smallish chasing your draws.   And the reason for calling the 3-bet with a bad hand. Despite being such a bad hand it still had very good nut drawing potential(although not many). So i was left with a gamble for 16p which if i got really lucky would win£5 and if i didnt would not cost me another penny. I will take those odds everyday of the week.
Posted by Talon

Thanks for taking the time to explain this Colin, all understood.

waynec

Hi Colin

" And the reason for calling the 3-bet with a bad hand. Despite being such a bad hand it still had very good nut drawing potential(although not many). So i was left with a gamble for 16p which if i got really lucky would win£5 and if i didnt would not cost me another penny. I will take those odds everyday of the week."

I agree with what you say up to calling the 3bets.

If you decide to call every 3bet with a weak drawing hand is not a good long term plan as you will lose more than you win over a period.

DOHHHHHHH

in omaha, u can set mine every other hand

Talon

  As a rule yes calling these 3-bets with weak hands is an overall losing play. But i base my calls on reads on the players. If you can see that a players 3-betting range is AAxx only and they will always c-bet any flop then these are easy calls to make knowing that the cost is small and the implied odds are amazing.

  Against a really good player whose 3-betting range would include TJQK ds then i would be less likely to make the call with a marginal hand because of being in so much trouble against this quality of hand and also because you will lose all your implied odds against a good player because they will not pay you off when they miss.

GREGHOGG

So to summarise, on a short handed table, against bad players, you can call with a very wide range to a 3 bet pre as you have massive implied odds....

Should you hit your hand, it is payday and you can post about how bad the opponant was on the forum...:)

think i got it...

Talon

  In a nutshell greg yes.

  But there is also some advice in there as well to all new players of omaha. They need to learn how to fold big hands. I myself have folded AA after the flop a lot of times when the board comes wrong and there is action before me.Sometimes these will have been bad folds but a bad fold is infinitely better than a bad call.

waynec

In Response to Re: How to lose your stack by overplaying a reasonable starting hand.:

So to summarise, on a short handed table, against bad players, you can call with a very wide range to a 3 bet pre as you have massive implied odds.... Should you hit your hand, it is payday and you can post about how bad the opponant was on the forum...:) think i got it...
Posted by GREGHOGG

LOL love the humour here....

SHANXTA

it's almost like a competition of who can play the hand the worst

harvey23

In Response to Re: How to lose your stack by overplaying a reasonable starting hand.:

it's almost like a competition of who can play the hand the worst
Posted by SHANXTA

lol