Live game question

TommyD

Hey guys

Something happened to me last night for the very first time and I just want to know what you guys think I should of done or what the dealer should have done.

Essentially after I button stole an unraised pot I placed my hand face down, over the line and to my right for the dealer while he shoved the pot straight at me.  The gentleman on my right (obvious poker novice and oblivious to how he was irritating most of the table by his dwelling before folding pre and general constant self commentary) picked up my hand and looked at it.  As a result the dealer had to show the hand to the whole table (I have no problem with this, IMO he had to expose my hand now).  Even though I was very annoyed with everyone seeing my hand I took the player at his word that he thought this was the next deal and his next hand (if he wasn't such a buffoon I may have been more suspicious) and I laughed it all off.

My question is should the dealer, without prompting, issue a penalty or warning to the player (neither happened, the dealer didn't comment further) or would I have to prompt him to do this?  Should I have kicked up more of a fuss and had a go at the player or called for the TD to come over?  I didn't because as I said before, I felt the guy was a novice and didn't want to give him a real hard time.

dylan12

In Response to Live game question:

Hey guys Something happened to me last night for the very first time and I just want to know what you guys think I should of done or what the dealer should have done. Essentially after I button stole an unraised pot I placed my hand face down, over the line and to my right for the dealer while he shoved the pot straight at me.  The gentleman on my right (obvious poker novice and oblivious to how he was irritating most of the table by his dwelling before folding pre and general constant self commentary) picked up my hand and looked at it.  As a result the dealer had to show the hand to the whole table (I have no problem with this, IMO he had to expose my hand now).  Even though I was very annoyed with everyone seeing my hand I took the player at his word that he thought this was the next deal and his next hand (if he wasn't such a buffoon I may have been more suspicious) and I laughed it all off. My question is should the dealer, without prompting, issue a penalty or warning to the player (neither happened, the dealer didn't comment further) or would I have to prompt him to do this?  Should I have kicked up more of a fuss and had a go at the player or called for the TD to come over?  I didn't because as I said before, I felt the guy was a novice and didn't want to give him a real hard time.
Posted by TommyD

Wow that is weird m8 - I would be quite angry personally - he must have been an idiot to look in the first place!! Even though he is a novice I would have asked for a penalty to be issued tbh - only way he will learn really, if it was an honest mistake then he will take the penalty quietly and will no doubt be more carefull in future - if it wasn't an honest mistake then he deserves the punishment anyway!! These days there are a lot of players trying to act dumb at tables like they are novices but are far from it - by doing what he did he is obviously gaining information and hence my anger - I seriously don't think I could have kept my cool like you did in that situation m8!!

MAXALLY

You should of at least given him detention or told him to sit in the naughty corner for 30 minutes to think about his actions and when he was ready to say sorry, let him play again.  ))

Tikay10

Sadly, & remarkably, I think Dyl has got it spot on.

He HAS to be corrected, or will never learn, & if it was a deliberate moody, well he deserves a Penalty anyway. Nobody dies from a Time or Orbit Penalty, but it soon teaches them a lesson.

I got "f-bombed" once, with a 1 orbit penalty, in a WSOP Event, who'd have thunk!

The_Don90

This is the way it would be delt with at one of my venues, not saying this is correct for all venues however


The TD would be called over, by the player usually. This would be me. The player would recieve a small penalty of having to sit out for one round of the table. This includes still having to post blinds and any ante's.

Not sure if this is the case in other venues but certainly how i would deal with it. He would also be issued a warning.

I am strongly against players looking at other players cards without the holders authority.

Tikay10

I played at Luton last night, first time in ages, & saw a great little moody.

A Caber-Thrower is last to act, but as soon as the flop was dealt, loudly announced "I CHECK".

His only Oppo, in the BB, has yet to act.

Mr BB, being a little young, & gullible (Welsh, too I suspect) falls for this ruse all ends up.

Thinking Mr Caber-Thrower has "no hand", or has missed the Flop, because he had quickly said "I CHECK" (so loud, it was heard 4 tables away) our gullible friend in the BB now bets out.

Whereupon Mr Caber-Thrower immediately says "all-in".

BB calls, & turns over TPTK. Caber-Thrower tables his Set.

The Dealer never batted an eyelid, or warned him in any way. I'd have been reasonable if I were the TD, & taken him outside & hung him upside down by his ging-gangs.

Gavinxxxx

This is nothing, when i was playing last sunday, one player picked up the guys cards next to him and had a look, (while they were both still in the hand !! ) :O lol, never seen anything like it,  anyway the person who picked up the cards had his hand declared dead, but the big thing i was shocked at was the victims cards then had to be shown to the whole table (while he was still in the hand and the hand continued with everybody knowing his cards. Madness

Gavinxxxx

This is nothing, when i was playing last sunday, one player picked up the guys cards next to him and had a look, (while they were both still in the hand !! ) :O lol, never seen anything like it,  anyway the person who picked up the cards had his hand declared dead, but the big thing i was shocked at was the victims cards then had to be shown to the whole table (while he was still in the hand and the hand continued with everybody knowing his cards. Madness

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Live game question:

This is the way it would be delt with at one of my venues, not saying this is correct for all venues however The TD would be called over, by the player usually. This would be me. The player would recieve a small penalty of having to sit out for one round of the table. This includes still having to post blinds and any ante's. Not sure if this is the case in other venues but certainly how i would deal with it. He would also be issued a warning. I am strongly against players looking at other players cards without the holders authority.
Posted by The_Don90

That's your only error there, Don.

A player must NEVER be allowed to directly call the "Floor".

The Player can & may ask the Dealer to summon the Floor, however. Allowing Players to summon the Floor directly undermines the Dealers authority, & must never be done. Once requested to summon the Floor, the Dealer MUST comply, under all circumstances, & ask the Floor for a Ruling.

When the Floor (TD) arrives, 9 people will now all talk at the same time with their own version of Events, all different of course. Tell them all to STFU on pain of a Penalty, then listen first to the Dealer's Version, then the players version. When (or if) guilt is established, have the guilty party summarily shot. He still has to Post his Blinds, until Blinded out, or he dies, whichever first occurs.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : That's your only error there, Don. A player must NEVER be allowed to directly call the "Floor". The Player can & may ask the Dealer to summon the Floor, however. Allowing Players to summon the Floor directly undermines the Dealers authority, & must never be done. Once requested to summon the Floor, the Dealer MUST comply, under all circumstances, & ask the Floor for a Ruling. When the Floor (TD) arrives, 9 people will now all talk at the same time with their own version of Events, all different of course. Tell them all to STFU on pain of a Penalty, then listen first to the Dealer's Version, then the players version. When (or if) guilt is established, have the guilty party summarily shot. He still has to Post his Blinds, until Blinded out, or he dies, whichever first occurs.
Posted by Tikay10

Ok thanks Tikay. Although the ony flaw i have, in my venues we dont have independent dealers, each player deals their own button.

Would this change this ?

dylan12

In Response to Re: Live game question:

Sadly, & remarkably, I think Dyl has got it spot on. He HAS to be corrected, or will never learn, & if it was a deliberate moody, well he deserves a Penalty anyway. Nobody dies from a Time or Orbit Penalty, but it soon teaches them a lesson. I got "f-bombed" once, with a 1 orbit penalty, in a WSOP Event, who'd have thunk!
Posted by Tikay10

WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

dylan12

In Response to Re: Live game question:

I played at Luton last night, first time in ages, & saw a great little moody. A Caber-Thrower is last to act , but as soon as the flop was dealt, loudly announced "I CHECK". His only Oppo, in the BB, has yet to act. Mr BB, being a little young, & gullible (Welsh, too I suspect) falls for this ruse all ends up. Thinking Mr Caber-Thrower has "no hand", or has missed the Flop, because he had quickly said "I CHECK" (so loud, it was heard 4 tables away) our gullible friend in the BB now bets out. Whereupon Mr Caber-Thrower immediately says "all-in". BB calls, & turns over TPTK. Caber-Thrower tables his Set. The Dealer never batted an eyelid, or warned him in any way. I'd have been reasonable if I were the TD, & taken him outside & hung him upside down by his ging-gangs.
Posted by Tikay10

SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH!!

dylan12

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : Ok thanks Tikay. Although the ony flaw i have, in my venues we dont have independent dealers, each player deals their own button. Would this change this ?
Posted by The_Don90

I know years back in Swansea in the self dealt - if there was any dispute then the Dealer of the hand would ask for the TD, then the dealer would explain the situation to the TD - at times when the dealer was not happy to explain the situation for whatever reason - another player not involved in the hand would explain to the TD the issue/s - at no point should the player/s be allowed to tell the TD anything - it should always be an independant (Dealer of that hand normally) with nothing to gain from the situation.

Hope that made sense m8.  

Gavinxxxx

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : I know years back in Swansea in the self dealt - if there was any dispute then the Dealer of the hand would ask for the TD, then the dealer would explain the situation to the TD - at times when the dealer was not happy to explain the situation for whatever reason - another player not involved in the hand would explain to the TD the issue/s - at no point should the player/s be allowed to tell the TD anything - it should always be an independant (Dealer of that hand normally) with nothing to gain from the situation. Hope that made sense m8.  
Posted by dylan12

Yer this happens in Walsall, except it starts off one person talking then all hell breaks out lol

beaneh

If he's a nooby then fine so what I wouldn't complain.

The test of how good the establishment you are playing in is what they do about it. Someone be it the dealer or a floor manager should have a word so it doesn't happen again. It's pretty obvious when people have played before and are angle shooting and also when they are just silly.

I hate dealers that dont/cant take control of their table, and it's annoying when you have to call the floor over yourself! 

TommyD

Thanks for all of your replies guys.  Something I missed out was this guy was also in his 50s and looked a dead ringer for Colin Montgomery so maybe I thought he had enough problems

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Live game question:

Thanks for all of your replies guys.  Something I missed out was this guy was also in his 50s and looked a dead ringer for Colin Montgomery so maybe I thought he had enough problems
Posted by TommyD

He looked like a bulldog licking urine off a nettle???

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : I know years back in Swansea in the self dealt - if there was any dispute then the Dealer of the hand would ask for the TD, then the dealer would explain the situation to the TD - at times when the dealer was not happy to explain the situation for whatever reason - another player not involved in the hand would explain to the TD the issue/s - at no point should the player/s be allowed to tell the TD anything - it should always be an independant (Dealer of that hand normally) with nothing to gain from the situation. Hope that made sense m8.  
Posted by dylan12

OK yea that clears it up a little, want to improve my service at all times .

Although in a situation like this the dealer is at fault, not sure a dealer would every call floor staff on him/herself

beaneh

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : OK yea that clears it up a little, want to improve my service at all times . Although in a situation like this the dealer is at fault, not sure a dealer would every call floor staff on him/herself
Posted by The_Don90

IF the dealer has made a mistake tis a very good idea to call the floor staff over.

similarly it's often better to call the floor over because they are the 'management' their decision is much more accepted than the dealer. also if someone wants to keep discussing a mistake or hand and wants to complain it's easier if the floor has come over because they should walk away once they have given their verdict if the player wants to keep complaining they should have to get up and leave the table to talk to the supervisor allowing the game to continue playing.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Live game question:

In Response to Re: Live game question : Ok thanks Tikay. Although the ony flaw i have, in my venues we dont have independent dealers, each player deals their own button. Would this change this ?
Posted by The_Don90

if the game is non dealer dealt then you should deffo call a supervisor over from whatever venue you are playing in. If you dont have a supervisor i'd suggest you're probably in your own house or a mates and so you can all sort it between yourself!