Pre Flop Raising

dylan12

There was some debate on the Live Stream of the APAT ME Final last night regarding pre flop raising.
There were 5 remaining players, the rough chip counts were as follows -

Player 1 - 800K
Player 2 - 1.1m
Player 3 - 850K
Player 4 - 1.25m
Player 5 - 500K

The debate was that some thought their pre flop raising were to low and others agreed with the raising which was a raise to 100K with Blinds at 20k/40k and a running 3K ante - making 75K in the middle.

Do you agree with the raise size, would you make it slightly more?
Just a little question to get an insight of what others thought about raise sizing at these Blind levels really

BrownnDog

Min raise ftw

yb

I'd be making it around 88k-100k every time as the stacks to blinds ratio is low, by making the raise this size you're ensuring you aren't going to be pot committed if any opponent comes over the top, so making blind stealing easier. Most of the players still can't really afford to see many flops even when you raise smaller, so the raises will still get through a similar % of the time. Also, with these stack sizes players aren't going to be 3bet/folding hardly ever if at all (definitely the 3 smaller stacks can't), so its not like when you have a value hand by 4x raising preflop you are going to get more value out of the times they're 3bet bluffing and then folding, as either way they'll be pot committed when they 3 bet (and tbh most players will probably just be 3bet shoving).

A lot of players, Phil Hellmuth included, still advocate 4x raising even in these latter stages, but this isn't going to make good players 3bet you less imo - this should be dependent on your image rather than on the sizes of your raise. So all you do by raising bigger is to make blind stealing less +EV as you lose a bigger chunk of your stack when you're light and get 3bet.

BrownnDog

Min raiseeeeeeee 

dylan12

lol, ok, min raise ftw

It was a thing last night that grandad tikay and Simon Trumper were discussing, most of the forum users said that the 100K raise pre was good but tikay and Simon disagreed because with the raise it was giving the BB 3:1 on there monies innit and because of that 1 guy in particular kept calling from the BB. They believed that the raise pre should have been more in order to not price in the BB to call with any 2 cards.

Just an interesting debate that I think can be discussed here because it was interesting to hear the differing views last night on the subject

LOL_RAISE

raise sizes for each player shouldnt be the same

beaneh

if we're raising a tight range and he's calling a stuipdly loose one then unless he plays like ivey post we should be happy. 

80-100k is perfect, never need any more.

YoungUn

My PF raise at this stage of this tourney was 2.5x. A lot of people were doing less than that, and very few raised more than 3x (unless they were open-shipping obv). I raise that much because I lose less % of my stack when steals get 3-bet and I don't have to c-bet as much as if I had 4x'ed pre like I do in cash. To reinforce what yb said about stacks-to-blind ratio, at the beginning of the tourney (10k starting stack) I was 4x'ing when open-raising pre.