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I'm Confused.....

edited September 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Dudeskin8 Small blind  40.00 40.00 10235.00
Big blind  80.00 120.00 11135.00
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
     
KEITH1960 Fold     
hibsfan Call  80.00 200.00 3355.00
Arfur Fold     
jjjach Fold     
Dudeskin8 Raise  280.00 480.00 9955.00
Call  240.00 720.00 10895.00
hibsfan Call  240.00 960.00 3115.00
Flop
   
  • A
  • 4
  • 9
     
Dudeskin8 Bet  720.00 1680.00 9235.00
Raise  1440.00 3120.00 9455.00
hibsfan Fold     
Dudeskin8
X has just recently joined the table and no previous reads to know if their a standard donkey or actually know how to play. Make a decent raise pre just called by both then fairly dry flop but bet out for value, then I'm reraised, what next baring in mind stack sizes ?

Comments

  • edited September 2010

    1st fold AQ pre from any position (even big blind with no pre-flop raises)

    with the blinds at that level  and your stack and his stack i'd fold it. Let him have this one and if he is a donkey he will no doubt do it again when you have a better hand you can be more sure of winning with.

    Theres a chance he is a lunatic with AT or something, but with no reads there's also as much chance of him having 44.

  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    1st fold AQ pre from any position (even big blind with no pre-flop raises) with the blinds at that level  and your stack and his stack i'd fold it. Let him have this one and if he is a donkey he will no doubt do it again when you have a better hand you can be more sure of winning with. Theres a chance he is a lunatic with AT or something, but with no reads there's also as much chance of him having 44.
    Posted by Mr_Miyagi
    Are you serious? Are you really gonna fold a strong starting hand 6 handed?

    Personally I'm never folding AQ pre in this situation. Had there been a strong raise & call or re-raise then I'd consider dropping it but never here.

    fwiw, I think I'm inclined to make a call here & re-evaluate on the turn. You've got a decent enough stack to make a call & it could be that villain just doesn't believe you or has a weaker ace. 
  • edited September 2010
    i would most likely call and fold to a big bet on the turn.

    i really wouldnt be surprised to see him minraise flop and check back the turn with a worse hand that was trying to find out where he is
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : Are you serious? Are you really gonna fold a strong starting hand 6 handed? Personally I'm never folding AQ pre in this situation. Had there been a strong raise & call or re-raise then I'd consider dropping it but never here. fwiw, I think I'm inclined to make a call here & re-evaluate on the turn. You've got a decent enough stack to make a call & it could be that villain just doesn't believe you or has a weaker ace. 
    Posted by silentbob
    yep. This hand is the perfect example why, even flopping top pair you never know where you are, if your holding AK here you would feel confident, but AQ and it's confused dude. I'd even prefer AJ in this spot.
  • edited September 2010
    AQ and AK are identical on this flop unless you have a read that he flats pre with AK and minraises ace high flops.

    we dont have that read
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : yep. This hand is the perfect example why, even flopping top pair you never know where you are, if your holding AK here you would feel confident, but AQ and it's confused dude. I'd even prefer AJ in this spot.
    Posted by Mr_Miyagi
    Now I am confused why is AJ better than AQ when you hit top pair.... I would be happier with an A kicker with my A and like wise prefer a Q kicker to a J??????
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : Now I am confused why is AJ better than AQ when you hit top pair.... I would be happier with an A kicker with my A and like wise prefer a Q kicker to a J??????
    Posted by waynecure
    it`s because it`s the LML nuts
  • edited September 2010
    Mr Miyagi is levelling u all hahaha worked a treat

    as for the hand i would re-raise to 3k, if they flat called or re-raised then i would try getting away with it but opponent could easily play a ace the same way and thinks your repping it
  • edited September 2010
    Not sure what flop you wanna see dudeskin with A Q in your hand and a rainbow flop of A 4 9 ? looks a gd spot for you here and as 'young gun' says oppo may have a far weaker Ace.Ok if they have hit a set then fair play but im defo re-raising them and prob getting all-in if i have to.

    BTW ive got a feeling i may know the player you are talking about as i had the lobby up and by their stack size im pretty sure who it is.

    PS i just managed to cash and finished 5th,greghogg was owning the table as chip daddy and in all probability looked like taking this down.

    NOPE i just checked and hogg got 2nd the winner was COUNCIL005,so wd both of you.
  • edited September 2010
    Looks a good flop, but setspotting when you're this deep is what will make you cash.

    To me, it all depends on the quality of the player, which you don't know. If he's a good player, it could be a complete bluff based on the fact you're going to c-bet any flop when raising preflop, and gambling on you having perhaps KQ/KJ/any underpair, and the ace being a scare card. He could also have 2 pair or a set, or a weaker ace.

    Weighing all that up, I'd be inclined to call and see what he does on the turn. You're wayyyy too deep to consider doing anything stupid though, if he puts in a 3/4k bet on the turn, I'd get out of there. You don't want to get too involved with top pair strong kicker.

    If your stack was 3k or less, I'd probably say shove and hope, you're probably just about ahead of his range, and may still have outs if he only has 2 pair. But no need to get married to AQ with over 100bbs back.

    Oh, top job by Miyagi too, way to troll everyone ^^
  • edited September 2010
    re raise see what he does, i would say he shoves or folds.If he calls re evaluate his turn play but dont start calling his bets if he bets out
  • edited September 2010
    Thanks for the replies, these sort of spots I often find confusing as I'm not in the happy stage of Shove/Fold and not in the first level so the decision is always crucial. In the end I called the flop bet to see what they did, a 2k bet on the turn seemed like a value bet to me and so I didn't fancy calling with an almost certain shove on the river so folded losing only 1.7k.

    Dudeskin8 Small blind  40.00 40.00 10235.00
    Big blind  80.00 120.00 11135.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • A
         
    KEITH1960 Fold     
    hibsfan Call  80.00 200.00 3355.00
    Arfur Fold     
    jjjach Fold     
    Dudeskin8 Raise  280.00 480.00 9955.00
    Call  240.00 720.00 10895.00
    hibsfan Call  240.00 960.00 3115.00
    Flop
       
    • A
    • 4
    • 9
         
    Dudeskin8 Bet  720.00 1680.00 9235.00
    Raise  1440.00 3120.00 9455.00
    hibsfan Fold     
    Dudeskin8 Call  720.00 3840.00 8515.00
    Turn
       
    • 3
         
    Dudeskin8 Check     
    Bet  1920.00 5760.00 7535.00
    Dudeskin8 Fold     
    Muck     
    Win  3840.00  11375.00
    Return  1920.00 0.00 13295.00
  • edited September 2010
    I still think you were ahead but as its a deepie not a bad fold on the turn, think you would be more clear if you re-raised 2-3 x on that flop then you wouldnt be so confused now me thinks
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    I still think you were ahead but as its a deepie not a bad fold on the turn, think you would be more clear if you re-raised 2-3 x on that flop then you wouldnt be so confused now me thinks
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    I agree i hate just calling but to make a raise it's gotta be around 3k and then if they shove I have to fold, also if she has double barelled me on a bluff well done, but for me most the time they actually have something pretty good here, of course that might be an overplayed A10/J but I'd rather not take the risk.
  • edited September 2010
    ive looked a bout 3 times at this one and i would probably check the flop and see what he does. if he leads  out re-raise 2x then fold if he carries on with hand. (not saying thats right , but thats just me )

    in a shorter game might take the risk, but its still a tough decision without reads
  • edited September 2010
    so many worse Ax hands in peoples range pre that betting > checking imo.

    3betting the flop is the worst move you could possibly make it should be quite obvious as to why.

    i think you played it fine
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    so many worse Ax hands in peoples range pre that betting /> checking imo. 3betting the flop is the worst move you could possibly make it should be quite obvious as to why. i think you played it fine
    Posted by LOL_RAISE

    On your own as usual lol :P
  • edited September 2010
    thats why all the tables insta fill as soon as i sit :(
  • edited September 2010
    I complete pre.


    bet call flop. c/f turn to big bet. make a note. and sigh alot. 
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    I complete pre. bet call flop. c/f turn to big bet. make a note. and sigh alot. 
    Posted by beaneh
    Sorry if i'm being stupid here but does that mean just limp in the sb ?
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : Sorry if i'm being stupid here but does that mean just limp in the sb ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    you are the small blind.


    you are given the option of raising. completing the blind or folding. Completing is limping in yes :)
  • ybyb
    edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : Sorry if i'm being stupid here but does that mean just limp in the sb ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Yep this is what the fish means. Raise pre ftw!

    You played it perfect imo, though I might be tempted to call turn as its only 1/2 pot.
  • edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : Yep this is what the fish means. Raise pre ftw! You played it perfect imo, though I might be tempted to call turn as its only 1/2 pot.
    Posted by yb
    I wasn't sure about this as then do I have an option fo folding the river ?
  • ybyb
    edited September 2010
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused.....:
    In Response to Re: I'm Confused..... : I wasn't sure about this as then do I have an option fo folding the river ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Yeah you'll still have 6.5k behind. I think your line is fine as well though, this spot is very villain dependent.
  • edited September 2010
    CALL PRE IS BETTER THAN RAISE IMO IMHO
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