Dont over rate AA KK at the 4 card game!

waynec

Its nice to see more players taking up the four card game which I learnt some 10 years ago before getting into holdem, I do notice that players are playing the same as holdem raising with a bare pair of AA KK unsuited as shown below not a good a hand as you may think.
This table had one player raising the pot every hand holdem style and calling 3bets with bare over pairs, and mr xxx really loved his AA and KK, this is not a brag but an example for new 4 card players not to over rate these over cards as my starting hand here is much better than a good holdem starting hand due to the many redraws you encounter on every street.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
waynecure	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£19.70
stafford12	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£10.23
	Your hole cards	6 10 8 7
xxx	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£16.13
kyle20	Raise		£0.87	£1.37	£27.20
waynecure	Call		£0.77	£2.14	£18.93
stafford12	Call		£0.67	£2.81	£9.56
xxx	Call		£0.67	£3.48	£15.46
Flop
		J 7 7
waynecure	Bet		£3.48	£6.96	£15.45
stafford12	Fold
xxx	Call		£3.48	£10.44	£11.98
kyle20	Fold
Turn
		7
waynecure	Check
xxx	Bet		£10.44	£20.88	£1.54
waynecure	All-in		£15.45	£36.33	£0.00
xxx	All-in		£1.54	£37.87	£0.00
waynecure	Unmatched bet		£3.47	£34.40	£3.47
waynecure	Show	6 10 8 7
xxx	Show	A 2 3 A
River
		J
waynecure	Win	Four 7s	£33.50		£36.97

Talon

  This is unfortunately for a lot of people the standard way to play omaha. Failure to lay down AA post flop when it misses is fine in NLHE but a killer in omaha. I think he did the right thing in calling on the flop but then should have ready to keep pot control after despite him turning third nuts because of your action on the flop.

  More people need to see how weak and vulnerable AAxx is and how good a starting hand like yours was.When this realisation happens they will find themselves playing better and winning more and bigger pots.

LOL_RAISE

villain effectively has the 2nd nuts as i really doubt you are pot leading 4way with JJ here.

were you planning on calling a shove on the flop because i think thats probably pretty spewy

DeucesLive

He said the player loves raising with AA/KK type hands, which means whilst it IS possible he has JJ, it's quite unlikely. More often than not he's overvaluing his top pair- as talon said, fine in holdem but suicidal in omaha. I think the point is the player isn't thinking about this as omaha, but as holdem with 4 hole cards, in which case he has a great hand on that board to his mind.

Good thread, highlights the problem with omaha that's prevalent- I still struggle with playing AAxx hands in omaha myself, it looks too pretty to lay down

LOL_RAISE

no he said 1 player was LAGgy and that another player (villain) just loves his AA/KK, not that he loves raising with them.

im not saying that wayne leading is bad because villain will show up with JJ once ina blue moon i think that its bad becaues there are better 7x hands that he will get his money in bad against

wayne is i imagine almost never leading JJ here for full pot on the flop which mean villain just loses to 7xxx on the turn so i really dont see how he is overvaluing his hand here.
generally new players are just like "i has an overpair POT POT POT" but i dont think this hh is that good of an example of it.

waynec

In Response to Re: Dont over rate AA KK at the 4 card game!:

villain effectively has the 2nd nuts as i really doubt you are pot leading 4way with JJ here. were you planning on calling a shove on the flop because i think thats probably pretty spewy
Posted by LOL_RAISE

3 x 7 very vunrable hence the pot bet would have been happy to take it down on the flop, without the 7 on the turn I would be very unhappy to call any large bets. How ever against this player due to my reads I was sure he had a PP, hence the check on turn knowing he would bet strong as he did. However without the 7 on the turn I would have worried about JJ with this player as he would play a bare JJ.

waynec

In Response to Re: Dont over rate AA KK at the 4 card game!:

no he said 1 player was LAGgy and that another player (villain) just loves his AA/KK, not that he loves raising with them. im not saying that wayne leading is bad because villain will show up with JJ once ina blue moon i think that its bad becaues there are better 7x hands that he will get his money in bad against wayne is i imagine almost never leading JJ here for full pot on the flop which mean villain just loses to 7xxx on the turn so i really dont see how he is overvaluing his hand here. generally new players are just like "i has an overpair POT POT POT" but i dont think this hh is that good of an example of it.
Posted by LOL_RAISE

You miss my point LOL raise not really trying to highlight this hand just trying to show it as an example how a bare AA is not a a great hand. as mentioned in reply to last post I did not like my 777 on the flop as I dont like AAA either at omaha.