Is this a losing play long term??

Batkin88

Just to make u aware the call pre flop is very loose for me but have been told alot to adjust to the players at my table and this villain had seen the last 7/8 pots roughly!!! and i wanted posistion but didnt get it.
He wasnt happy with my flop call but i saw it as a continuation bet.
Advice please

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ACESAAAA	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£49.49
G_O	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£13.80
	Your hole cards	A 7
Jiffyjen	Fold
xxxx	Raise		£0.80	£1.10	£20.27
Batkin88	Call		£0.80	£1.90	£20.60
ACESAAAA	Call		£0.70	£2.60	£48.79
G_O	Fold
Flop
		3 7 Q
ACESAAAA	Check
xxxxxx	Bet		£1.80	£4.40	£18.47
Batkin88	Call		£1.80	£6.20	£18.80
ACESAAAA	Call		£1.80	£8.00	£46.99
Turn
		A
ACESAAAA	Check
xxxxxx	Bet		£4.00	£12.00	£14.47
Batkin88	Call		£4.00	£16.00	£14.80
ACESAAAA	Call		£4.00	£20.00	£42.99
River
		5
ACESAAAA	Check
xxxxx	Check
Batkin88	Bet		£5.00	£25.00	£9.80

spornybol

i can`t put them on trip`s or even higher two pair, not with two checks so i would have shoved on river, and if they did trap me with higher pair/trips then my pink pu ssy cat would get get a kick and then say fair play you got me, that`s the way i`d play it but i`m sure someone would disagree we all play differently that why i love poker

DeucesLive

Nope, can't argue to be honest- but what do you mean, wanted position but didn't get it? You had the button lol, of course you had position.

His bet did look like a c-bet, no harm in seeing what he did on the turn- I'd be shutting down on the turn when he bets again but of course you hit your two pair. When they both check the river it's pretty clear they were on draws and have nothing, I'd be slightly concerned about aces slowplaying based on the villains activity, but I'd still value bet for about the amount you did.

Who cares if he didn't like your flop call, he shouldn't be so aggressive raising and betting everywhere and expecting people to treat it with any respect. If you're playing every hand someone is going to call your bluff sooner or later.

yb

Once I've called pre I'm not folding on the flop unless villain is really tight.

Shove turn imo. If turn was a blank then fold.

Batkin88

just seen that i was on the button!! Im sure when i played it i was second to act lol.
Totally agree with what all of u are saying it turned out one had a draw the other had pocket kings!!! So he paid me off but surely his pre and flop bets are way to small.
But what i would like to know is by calling these types of flops on aggro players will it be a losing play long term??

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Is this a losing play long term??:

Once I've called pre I'm not folding on the flop unless villain is really tight. Shove turn imo. If turn was a blank then fold.
Posted by yb

Whats the thinking here then?

You obviously aren't calling the flop to draw to 2p/trips.......So if you call and he bets the turn again, you have to give him credit for a Queen? 

1 shot = could be anything.

2 shots = must be top pair? 

(without reads?)

This is a genuine question rather than me dis-agreeing.....

How successful is calling 1 with the mindset of folding to a bet on a blank turn? 

YOUNG_GUN

i agree with yb here, calling a) to hit another, b) just a small continuation bet so could be ahead here but if you dont hit turn then i'd be getting out here, c) marginal whether i'd call but probably would

yb

I think a fairly aggro player is going to cbet this type of board 3 way so I'm happy to float 1 off with 2nd pair, but when there is an overcall behind AND he fires the 2nd barrel on the turn you've got to think you're beat most of the time.

Readless I'm calling flop, if you see villain as tight and his cbet % is low (especially 3 way) then you can just fold the flop. Also if the board was wetter then I might just fold flop with 2nd pair because there's less chance he's cbetting with air.

LOL_RAISE

yeah DOHH basically yb is saying that vs an unknown he is going to cbet dry flops like this wayyy too much but then shutdown with alot of his air on the turn.
villains range for betting flops is not the same as their range for betting turns.
i think you played the hand fine upto the river where i would shove we have £15 in a £20 pot so ez shove

DOHHHHHHH

If it's a wet flop, wouldn't that give you more reason to float as you can "turn your hand into a bluff" against a tight player on the turn/river......theres gonna be alot of cards he doesn't like?

Am I too obsessed with bluffing?

Sometimes I get in the situation where Im not sure if I need to bluff or not, I have showdown, but he might have better....

A bet to make him fold means he can't possibly win.....

DOHHHHHHH

Also, as an aside, as people are reading this thread atm.....

Whart sort of VP-PFR stats should you be aiming for playing from the small blind in 6 max cash???

I read somewhere, it's a common mistake to play too much from the sb, and Im sure I do, I make up/steal so much...........wont put mine up, but wud be interesting to compare.

yb

I don't know about the optimum stats but I rarely make up from the sb (and never in an unopened pot). I'm guessing I raise about 25-30% from the sb in unopened pots, if the bb doesn't defend then more.

DOHHHHHHH

Ugh I don't know how to filter my stats, obv playing 4 hours HU has messed them up, don't know how to get em for just 6 max. Nvm....

I was limping alot tho......35, 57, 69, 23 etc etc sorta hands.......

WOOOO I've found it (along with a million other stats!!)

SB unopened,(vp-pfr) 40.2 - 18,8...............???

yb

Yeah that's pretty bad, more than half the time you play an unopened pot from the sb you're limping along. Why do you think its ok to limp into pots from the sb when you wouldn't from other positions? And why do you feel the need to play hands like 32 etc especially as you'll be oop?

Fwiw if I'm in the bb and faced with a serial limper in the sb I just start raising with a really wide range, that why they're gonna have to play with very marginal hands oop in bigger pots if they still wanna continue.

DOHHHHHHH

hmmmm I dunno I suppose it's coz I have 1/2 a bb invested???

Never really thought about it like that.

I never limp in any other position, unless theres extreme circumstances.......Or maybe if Im on the button with A2 suited and 3 limpers before me......

I spose coz the bb rarely raises my limp, and normally I can take down the flop with a bet. I've raised the sb abit with junk, been called, then had to check fold the flop......so I don't like building pots with rubbish hands oop......

My options therefore are limp/fold.....

And I normally end up limping, 3/1 on a call with any 2.....?

LOL_RAISE

but its not 3/1 when you face a 4xbb race the vast majority of the time and then whenever the board has a card ten or higher you will face a 3barrel because your range basically never has a card ten or higher in it