You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

*MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....

edited October 2010 in The Poker Clinic

I haven't posted this just for hand analysis, as I am happy with the way I've played it, and the result of the hand (when the money went in)

I want your thought process, and different points of view, for what your are trying to achieve in this spot.

- Is the first level of a 5.50 MTT - 65 runners, 8 paid.

- I have no notes on the players, but the standard here is pretty bad typically, ofc there's gonna be some unknown competent players, but I havent seen anything yet.

- Pre flop, I have a big hand, I wanna get some money into the pot, if I take it down now, happy days.

- My aim in mtt's is not to go all out for the win, ofc I'd rather cash than bubble, but if I do cash, I want to give myself a chance of winning.....(ie, not get into the cash with 4xbb)

Therefore my game-plan is to get chips early, and use them to exploit the edge that I think I have over the field.

What would you do at each stage of the hand? Referring to your MTT strategy?

Thanx


PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancewattage Small blind  10.00 10.00 1875.00 DOHHHHHHH Big blind  20.00 30.00 1940.00   Your hole cards A K       kelboy Call  20.00 50.00 1371.25 andydufres Call  20.00 70.00 2803.75 PNM Fold     Everton76 Raise  40.00 110.00 1900.00 wattage Call  30.00 140.00 1845.00 DOHHHHHHH Raise  250.00 390.00 1690.00 kelboy Fold     andydufres Fold     Everton76 Call  230.00 620.00 1670.00 wattage Call  230.00 850.00 1615.00 Flop    3 5 Q       wattage Check     DOHHHHHHH Bet  700.00 1550.00 990.00 Everton76 All-in  1670.00 3220.00 0.00 wattage Fold     DOHHHHHHH Call  970.00 4190.00 20.00 DOHHHHHHH Show A K    Everton76 Show J J   

Comments

  • edited October 2010
    for what its worth....
    pre flop .....  raise pot size (140)

    post flop..... bet out for about 400-450 into pot which would be 560

    after oppo re-raises all in I fold, knowing I am way behind.

    At a later stage in the tourney I may reconsider, but this early no way am I putting all my chips in post flop with AK on that board,  after all what am I holding ?  only Ace high.

    QM
  • edited October 2010
    I think like you JJ I over play my flush draws in MTTs, ok for cash, I have started to play them different now for MTTs than cash I am happy to report came 2nd last night in a MTT my first FT in this type of format so maybe over aggression on draws is not the best policy IMO!!!!!!
  • edited October 2010

    pre flop i think a bit too aggro maybe 100-140

    flop again too aggro i maybe 1/2 pot it

    whatever the response has been though by the oppo all of my chips are going in to any shove or re-raise

  • edited October 2010

    Ok....

    On the flop, surely if you're gonna stack off, you should bet as much as possible initially to try and get him to fold? Obviously we are semi-bluffing, so making the guy fold would be the best result?
  • edited October 2010
    great spot, think ur pretty much ahead so not too worried if he folds or not..
  • edited October 2010
    you played it perfect imo
  • edited October 2010
    Looks fine to me, you punished the weak/passive/fishy play preflop with a man-sized raise. On that flop with your hand it doesn't really matter what happens because I'm not folding, you made a very strong bet that could easily be the Q but he still chucked his stack in on a pure bluff which you ofcourse snap off in an instant.
  • edited October 2010
    fwiw my strat in MTT's is to try and make it past the first blind level and then spew as much as possible.

    quietman a pot sized raise would be to 200 total, to work it out you call the raise to match his bet, then reraise the size of the new pot which would be 20(to call his raise)+140=160(this is the total size of the pot that you then add on to your stake),
     40+160 = 200.

    bet/folding flop is really bad
  • edited October 2010
    i am far from an mtt specialist, but fwiw, looks fine
  • edited October 2010
    how do you get a starting table full of randoms on in that tourney?

    my table had Anjie1980 and Massie29 on it. sigh

    once i see that flop and with the amount in there im happy to get my chips in Dohhhhhh you played it fine in that respect.
     
    However, I do keep the pot smaller tho as its early days i wouldnt reraise with AK so big pre. i might even flat the min raise pre... others will hate this obv.
  • edited October 2010

    i would do exactly the same and pre flop is ryt any smaller u would of ended up with 3-4 callers!!
    nice pay howd it work out?

  • edited October 2010

    (I missed)

    lol maybe if I'd had one of those 2 or yourself on the button with jacks Greg, I'da lasted longer than 6 minutes. 

    :(


  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    (I missed) lol maybe if I'd had one of those 2 or yourself on the button with jacks Greg, I'da lasted longer than 6 minutes.  :(
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Its ok i knocked em both out and went on to final table (4th i think):) brag alert lol.
  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    fwiw my strat in MTT's is to try and make it past the first blind level and then spew as much as possible. quietman a pot sized raise would be to 200 total, to work it out you call the raise to match his bet, then reraise the size of the new pot which would be 20(to call his raise)+140=160(this is the total size of the pot that you then add on to your stake),  40+160 = 200. bet/folding flop is really bad
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    thanks for this info mate, I havent been playing this game very long so every little snippet helps

    if I was to click on the 'pot ' raise button then I would have raised it to 200, but I wouldn't use this button so my pot raise would be what was in the pot , which was 140 and that was the amount I intended to raise not 200 as you say,
    but,
    thanks anyway
    QM
  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    great spot, think ur pretty much ahead so not too worried if he folds or not..
    Posted by rats107
    when exactly was he ahead ?
  • edited October 2010
    super standard

    u played it fine
  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy.... : when exactly was he ahead ?
    Posted by Quietman
    9 hearts+3 kings+3 aces= 15 outs, he's more than a 50% favourite to win when the money goes in
  • edited October 2010

    I think you played it well m8

    With AK your obviously not gonna hit that many times so when you see that flop you have got to crack open a can of beer, sit back and call his all in and relax :)

    You say you missed, oh well, never mind but you are happy to see his hand because if you thought you were only on a FD you now know 100% that any A or K is good as well - I would be seriously excited if I were you :)

  • edited October 2010
    Pre i would have raised 200, c bet would be about 600 then when they go all in i would probably call as we have any heart, Ace or King and likely to be ahead here. Same result for me but obviously different sized betting, ul JJ

    hate the other persons play here flat calling pre and then all in when over card
  • edited October 2010
    Why do you bloat the pot oop with A hi? What if the flop is J 9 8 two clubs? It's just kissing goodbye to a chunk of your stack because people will call.

    This flop is obv good for you and you can c bet get it in here. But playing such a big pot first level of mtt isn't such a great idea unless u make close to de nuts. 

    Btw your c bet is close to pot, do you make most of your bets in mtts big? I can understand the big bet here but I see so many players (regs too) just bashing the pot button in mtt's. It's like watching the primo final table and seeing people opening to 5x on the button. Baffling.
  • edited October 2010
    Well, on the primo final table that makes absolute sense, because by making your raise size that big, you're folding out far more hands- it's essentially saying that you really like your hand. It's not good to get stuck into the 3x rut, especially early stages of tournament when a 3x raise means nothing. What you're looking for with that real raise size with AK is for a donk with AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ or even a decent player with any underpair to get stuck in with a reraise, so you can shove and get your chips in preflop. If not, you've still got a big pot to work with and AK holds up fairly well against a large range of hands.
  • edited October 2010

    Against players I play regularly in cash, and good, well known mtt players, I obviously have to be aware of my betting patterns.

    Here on the flop, I'm stacking off if he wants to play that way.....

    But ideally I want him to fold.

    So I make my bet as big as I think I can without just jamming, turning my hand face up, and saying to him "I've got a draw"

    I never raise more than 2.5xbb late on in a tournament without reads. 

    Raised big pre because Ive got ace king? It's a nice hand :)  Wanted to get it heads up ideally.
  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    Well, on the primo final table that makes absolute sense, because by making your raise size that big, you're folding out far more hands- it's essentially saying that you really like your hand. It's not good to get stuck into the 3x rut, especially early stages of tournament when a 3x raise means nothing. What you're looking for with that real raise size with AK is for a donk with AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ or even a decent player with any underpair to get stuck in with a reraise, so you can shove and get your chips in preflop. If not, you've still got a big pot to work with and AK holds up fairly well against a large range of hands.
    Posted by DeucesLive
    It doesn't make sense if you're 5x folding. It also doesn't make sense if you are then priced in to make a call with a marginal hand. No-one is folding out any hands when the blinds are that big btw, 5x A7 won't fold out A9. I would even go as far as opening to 3x later on in a tournament is a little too much. 

    Are many donks even shoving those hands 1st level of a tournament? I could understand this a lot more in position but I don't like playing a huge pot oop with AK 1st level, sorry. Btw, I would rather shove this hand than 3 bet to whatever he made it.
  • edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: *MTT specialists** first level, hand analysis, and strategy....:
    Against players I play regularly in cash, and good, well known mtt players, I obviously have to be aware of my betting patterns. Here on the flop, I'm stacking off if he wants to play that way..... But ideally I want him to fold. So I make my bet as big as I think I can without just jamming, turning my hand face up, and saying to him "I've got a draw" I never raise more than 2.5xbb late on in a tournament without reads.  Raised big pre because Ive got ace king? It's a nice hand :)  Wanted to get it heads up ideally.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Yeah I don't mind the flop bet in this hand. Just wondered because you see so many people just bashing the pot button.

    I only say about the huge pf raises because I see it so much too. Honestly I was down to the last 3 of a tournament the other week and the button opened to 8x with AA, blinds were 2/4k. Don't know if you advocate that DeucesLive but I snap folded like A7 in the bb. So I guess he 'folded out' some hands..
  • edited October 2010
    Personally I don't bet as much on the flop, as others have said around the 160 mark is good. The trouble with raising that much pre you will not want to fold your hand on the flop if you miss. Remember this isn't cash, if you miss you cant just bump back up to full stacks. My personal preference is to keep pots controlled until I hit the board and then you can go to town on the fish.

    As it was with that flop i'm putting my chips in as well you have the nut flush draw as well as overcards if they are live. With a table/tournament full of poor players think what damage you could do wih double everyone elses stack.

    Get the double or GTFO imo.
  • ybyb
    edited October 2010
    I'd probably reraise to around 230 pre fwiw and am more than happy to bloat the pot with AK against the limpers/min raiser. On the flop b/cing any amount is fine. In fact I would rather bet bigger to fold out some underpairs that still have ~ 50% equity against us so wp.


  • edited October 2010
    If you got a monster like AA, raising 8x is just stupid imo, there's disguising your hand and there's completely pricing your opponent out from calling with anything but a huge hand, a 3x raise with that is good enough to get hands involved which you're almost always crushing, and can probably then stack on a decent flop.

    The thing with a 5x raise is it doesn't leave so much leverage to a reraise bluff- if you get reraised, you're pretty certain you're behind. Marginal aces will often fold to a raise of that size, as well as a lot of other marginal hands (QJ/Q10/KJ etc). A 3x raise leaves a lot more fold equity open, when you open for 5x you're essentially saying 'I am in this hand, and you're not getting me off it'.

    I'm not saying it's what I'd do, or even what's correct to do, but I do think there's a place for it if you know your opponents well enough, increasing a raise size could work.
Sign In or Register to comment.