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Jacks facing r and rr in Primo
This hand was played on Primo, and TK gave his opinion- but was wondering what the rest of you would do here. Little information- first raiser is shortstacked and fairly negligible. Made up my mind as soon as he raised to shove on him, had a more than wide enough range to be ahead of him, but raiser #2 had been playing incredibly tight, hadn't raised or been involved in a pot for the 15 mins or so I'd been at that table. When he raised, I put him on a range of AA/KK/QQ/AK and possibly AQ/TT/99, though I wasn't entirely sure about that. What would you do with jacks at this stage, given the stack and blinds (I have just over 2500 chips at 75/150, so around 17 bbs). Both raisers were committed now provided no one else joins in, so I can pretty much scratch fold equity out.
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| kalooki8 | Small blind | 75.00 | 75.00 | 8480.00 | |
| DELTA | Big blind | 150.00 | 225.00 | 2740.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| harrison25 | Raise | 450.00 | 675.00 | 798.75 | |
| Red-Steve | Fold | ||||
| knight99 | Raise | 1150.00 | 1825.00 | 7650.00 | |
| DeucesLive | ???? |
Comments
2500 chips is enough to find a better spot. Even if that guy has AK your not in great shape, if he is as tight as you say then TT and below he will probs flat to go set mining, so ur up against AA,KK,QQ,AK or AQ here, let it go, and chances are the original raiser will go all in so you will see what he has anyway.
although i do agree i also fold, either fold or shove really. but as the origional poster says theres not much fold equity involved here.
I'd been down to 500 chips at 30/60 and slowly rebuilt myself to 2500 through stealing and small pots, no big double ups, so I felt confident enough about my game to not have to risk myself here, where I figured at absolute best I was a 50/50, and at worst more like 80/20. Sure, I might have just about had the odds, but not quite.
The stack sizes, as I mentioned, meant I had absolutely zero fold equity, so whilst I have no issue getting my money in with JJ and a chance of people folding, I'm not a fan of just calling off my stack with it, which essentially is what this was- the two players involved were never folding so they may as well already be allin. There's also players still to act- a small chance they might get involved with a monster.
Tikay was in the shove category at this stage too, which is fair enough- I certainly toyed with the idea, but Js to a reraise from a tight player just doesn't feel good to me. QQ/KK/AA/AK I would have shoved and hoped, but J's don't fare that well % wise against 2 allins, for me. Turns out I would have won, but I felt avoiding the risk at this stage and playing with fold equity working for me would be a better spot, I'm definitely with charles on this one.
I shove there tbh at that stage, Blinds go up quickly in the Primo and I aint ever folding JJ here because im in it to win it.
The 3 bet from Knight doesn't have to indicate massive strength like AA/KK, he has a massive stack and probably regards the other villain as you do so sets him in near enough so his range does widen slightly, ofc he is doing this with a respectable hand so I can understand your thinking but I can't fold here tbh.
If you were playing the Primo to min cash and progress then I can understand your fold but if you are in the Primo to win it, then imo you can't fold - if they turn up with AA/KK/QQ then so be it - I am more than willing to race at this stage in order to get a bigger stack to get into contention FTW.
I still want to fold here, don't enjoy racing for my tournament life!
17bb is enough to fold here tho so can see why you did it.
Interesting to see the divide though- I'm still not entirely sure what the best play is overall. I think one of Ed's favourite sayings (I think it's Ed?) works- if you're playing well, you can fold- if not, you have to shove. I was feeling confident enough at the time to find a better, non-racey spot to get my chips in, but on those days where I'm struggling to put a move together, I'd probably dump it in and pray.
I'm happy with races, but on my terms- not theirs. I'll happily stack with 66 if I shoved, but calling with it? Not so sure.
So the next question is, I guess- if you'd stack off with JJ, at what point would you fold? TT/99/88?
well done for finishing 15th
What a tough one. I could go either way tbh. Depends how i'm feeling/playing at the time.
I dont mind the fold, but i can understand getting it in too!
Its a good view from this fence.