Right play in this hand?

tapeworm

So the Villan was a TAG, raising with facecards and 99+. I thought i would have a stab at the hand hoping for a lowish flop and play a bit LAG. After I hit the 7 and raised, to me his re raise meant he was defending a made hand from the flush - obviously meaning he didnt have it.

I hade a few outs to improve my hand, and i thought I could take his whole,almost full buy in of a stack if i hit, so decided to call with bad odds (was it bad odds - maths not my strong point, felt like it was?). My question is, am i right to make this call on the flop and are my thought processes correct in terms of playing this hand?

Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
kerry1987	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.63
tapeworm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£6.52
	Your hole cards	8 7
TheWicked1	Fold
mickw	Fold
villan	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£3.67
kerry1987	Fold
tapeworm	Call		£0.12	£0.34	£6.40
Flop
		7 10 6
tapeworm	Bet		£0.26	£0.60	£6.14
villan	Raise		£0.91	£1.51	£2.76
tapeworm	Call		£0.65	£2.16	£5.49
Turn
		7
tapeworm	Bet		£1.62	£3.78	£3.87
villian	All-in		£2.76	£6.54	£0.00
tapeworm	Call		£1.14	£7.68	£2.73
tapeworm	Show	8 7
villan	Show	J J
River
		2
tapeworm	Win	Three 7s	£7.11		£9.84

unknown_username

id prob fold on the flop to the re raise as not much faith in that hand on that board , im sure sum of the gud players here will tell you what they think

yb

Fold pre.

As played c/f flop.

TommyD

Greetings Tapeworm

Let's break this down stage by stage.  Firstly why did you call preflop?  There is no one right answer, but you must have an answer.

tapeworm

In Response to Re: Right play in this hand?:

Greetings Tapeworm Let's break this down stage by stage.  Firstly why did you call preflop?  There is no one right answer, but you must have an answer.
Posted by TommyD

Hi Tommy,

preflop I called because he was playiing TAG, raising with face cards and 99+ and nothing else. (optimum play at this level no doubt). So i decided that i could call and if a low flop came, bet out first and steal the pot. I must stress i wasn't liking the cards so much as deciding i could play the player really. Against any player that i had no reads on these were being mucked.

Nice cards to get away from if any face cards come on the flop, i check and fold. However I did know i was behind on the flop after his reraise. I only called on the flop reraise because I felt i had a few outs and if i hit two pair or my gut shot I would take his whole stack - which was large enough to make the risk worth it, so calling with bad odds (again not to sure even if it was bad odds, although felt like it) on this occasion felt warrented - I also truely felt he had a high pocket pair (or possibly A,10 - although i had not seen him play that hand) by his reraise which was in my mind to defend against a flush.

Batkin88

i understand betting out on  the flop with 2nd pair as its a suited board however when the re raise comes in i would be folding near enough all the time. If you know you behind which u admit u do then i wouldnt recommend fishing for ur cards as in the long run it wont work out for u. In fairness u couldnt be sure the second seven was good enough to win so i dont think its a great play.

However you won the pot lol!!! And also calling pre with that hand is fine, players on here make out they only play premium hands but it isnt true and your hand is very dangerous to high cards.
I like the play up until the call on the re raise on the flop, i would much rather you shove to his re raise there than call it and basically tell him u havent got that flush.

tapeworm

In Response to Re: Right play in this hand?:

i understand betting out on  the flop with 2nd pair as its a suited board however when the re raise comes in i would be folding near enough all the time. If you know you behind which u admit u do then i wouldnt recommend fishing for ur cards as in the long run it wont work out for u. In fairness u couldnt be sure the second seven was good enough to win so i dont think its a great play. However you won the pot lol!!! And also calling pre with that hand is fine, players on here make out they only play premium hands but it isnt true and your hand is very dangerous to high cards. I like the play up until the call on the re raise on the flop, i would much rather you shove to his re raise there than call it and basically tell him u havent got that flush.
Posted by Batkin88

Thanks batkin, you make a very good point about me saying i didnt have the flush with my call, never thought of it that way at all, just vice versa- that kind of poker is stage 3 and im only used to 2 (i mean what does my oppenent think i have - stage 3 lol), which you never really get the chance to do at this level!!!

But that said, i dont think at these stakes, shoving is a good idea. in fact thats something i am certain of - if i shoved bluffing - and it did cross my mind very fleetingly.....It is very very likely he would have called as i knew he had something worthwhile - very few players are thinking "what does my oppent have, I know i have a high pocket pair, but could they have the flush?", at this level they would just call because they have JJ, KK, AA - bluffing is very rarely profitable at these stakes - in fact i would say in that spot - its minus EV all day long.

That said I deffo see your point, thanks for the imput, i will take it on board for higher stakes, as i never looked at it from a "now he knows i dont have the flush" aspect. Thanks

YOUNG_GUN

fold pre, if you want to make a stand against a player dont pick 78. especially when you have said he usually has stong pair 99+

on that flop dont mind betting out but after re-raise fold, although it appears you have outs you may not eg. made flush. personally you got very lucky here played it poor imo dont mean to be harsh but calling it how i see it

welcome to the forums aswell

Batkin88

yeah tapeworn i have just seen his stack dont shove there, however there are some good players at that level e.g. donkeyplop the_don appleart there are more i just cant remember all there names. I think young gun turns up from time to time after a DYM session. See if you are up against players like DP a shove here with two decent stacks would get him out of this hand because he will know its become a coin flip,  i would fold to a shove 90% of the time. But seeing the stacks it wouldnt be right and also this is a play that will work once a day on different tables it isnt going to work against the same player twice.
From the other side tho this level does hold some funny players i wont mention names but im sure other players know them who will call u down with ace high or the the k of spades. Its about picking the right time/place/and player to make that kind of move.
But poker is not about bluffing, you knew what he had in is hand near enough and you prob knew he would happily put his stack in thats why i dont agree with the re raise.

1 question: if you missed the seven on the turn and say it came down a 2 of hearts and he shoved would you call?

tapeworm

In Response to Re: Right play in this hand?:

yeah tapeworn i have just seen his stack dont shove there, however there are some good players at that level e.g. donkeyplop the_don appleart there are more i just cant remember all there names. I think young gun turns up from time to time after a DYM session. See if you are up against players like DP a shove here with two decent stacks would get him out of this hand because he will know its become a coin flip,  i would fold to a shove 90% of the time. But seeing the stacks it wouldnt be right and also this is a play that will work once a day on different tables it isnt going to work against the same player twice. From the other side tho this level does hold some funny players i wont mention names but im sure other players know them who will call u down with ace high or the the k of spades. Its about picking the right time/place/and player to make that kind of move. But poker is not about bluffing, you knew what he had in is hand near enough and you prob knew he would happily put his stack in thats why i dont agree with the re raise. 1 question: if you missed the seven on the turn and say it came down a 2 of hearts and he shoved would you call?
Posted by Batkin88

I would have checked the turn and folded to the reraise all in - no question about it - the original idea was to take the pot down on the flop, his reraise spoke volumes and gave me a prettty good idea what he had, like i said i did know i was behind. i have to be honest the only reason I called was the fact he had a large stack........ i would have folded to a reraise from a small stack - i dont stand to win a significant amount of chips for the risk involved.

My way of thinking was, that if i call in this spot (now and in the future) when presented with the right a) reads b) outs and C) oppenent with a almost full buyin+ .....and i manage to hit, I am getting paid off maximum.....making it profitable long term as my winnings are more, despite the bad odds.........

Thanks for the replies everyone, so the general concensus is that is -EV longterm, in that spot yeah?