playing rusty, but played correctly?

The_Don90

Ok most of this, is about my pre flop play here. Dont worry about the post flop.

Ok raise from early posisition comes from a player whos raised every single hand, so i know hes likley to call a 3-bet, its a £1 DYM so i think im well above his range, opinions please.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
borsberry1	Small blind		15.00	15.00	2985.00
LFB	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1970.00
	Your hole cards	A K
	Raise		150.00	195.00	930.00
The_Don90	Raise		510.00	705.00	1460.00
skatz	Fold
kawaman	Fold
borsberry1	Fold
LFB	Fold
	Call		360.00	1065.00	570.00
Flop
		8 K 8
	Check
The_Don90	Bet		798.75	1863.75	661.25
	Fold
The_Don90	Muck
The_Don90	Win		1065.00		1726.25
The_Don90	Return		798.75	0.00	2525.00

Please note, ive hardly played in a month so be a little harsher than usual please.

mr_mbro

Hi Don,

I wouldnt worry to much, you reraised and hit top pair, bet it strongly and won the hand without having to show your hand. Ok, you may have hit the guy holding a premium hand, but if he did and your read on him was right he would have gone back over you and i think the same post flop. However, you won the hand so all is well in the world lol.

col

SHANXTA

personally i wouldn't 3bet here, he's likely to call and then 2/3 of the time ur gonna av 1/4 of ur stk in level 2 with no pair and not know what to do as any c bet will pretty much commit you

remember you dnt need to win, just survive

DeucesLive

I'd almost always advocate raising with AK, but not in a dym. Raise the first and call a reraise, sure. Reraise? Not for me, I'm happy to flat and go to town if you hit. If you don't, I'd rather get away painlessly.

As shanx says, survival is key- not chip gathering. If I can hit 2700/2800, I'll pretty much sit out unless I get aces or kings and watch everyone else donk themselves out.

kirstii

I hate to disagree with the two players above as they know what they are talking about but for me there are very few games where i'm not 3 betting with AK. A 3 bet with AK is a +EV play. Bet on the flop makes sense i think, don't want any flush draws getting there for free. I ain't played a DYM for about 3 months but as an MTT player it's a 3 bet every time imo.

DeucesLive

In any format anywhere I'd agree with you kirstii, but the only hands I want to get big chips in preflop are AA and KK, and even then- knowing how many people call with raggy aces, getting too much in pre with KK will hurt you if an A comes down.

Unless you're playing at the high stakes dym (55+) people will happily donk themselves out- I'd guess probably at least 60/70% of the time you can cash without playing so much as a hand. The key (in my view) is to get into flops as cheaply as possible early on, and take it down if you hit a big part. Later on, when people tighten up, start the aggressive raising and shoving, get your chips up and whittle the bubble merchants down, then sit back and relax. Almost always works unless you're unlucky enough to run into AA.

YOUNG_GUN

I think you played it solid don, would defo be 3 betting pre and against this sort of player even would get in preflop if necessary whether DYM or sit n go, good flop to c bet on and took the pot.

Just out of interest had you not hit and two face cards such as jack & queen come on what would you do? or if totally low flop again?

DeucesLive

In Response to Re: playing rusty, but played correctly?:

Just out of interest had you not hit and two face cards such as jack & queen come on what would you do? or if totally low flop again?
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

This is the key- 2/3 times you're going to miss the flop, and now the pot is overinflated wayyy too far to make any kind of bet that doesn't commit you. You either give it up, and wave bye bye to 25% of your chips, or make a stab at it and pray for a fold. What do you then do if he shoves over the top, which is very possible with this kind of player? Either take an outright gamble with what is almost certainly the losing hand, or wave bye bye to 60% of your chips.

I just don't think there's any need to go to war in early dym stages with anything less than premium pps- you simply stand to lose too much when you get tied into a hand which is merely A high, and put in so much you're committed to making outright bluffs on flops. Sure, this time it was a favourable flop- great. But too many times you're going to bleed a large portion of your stack for me.

If you don't put your chips in the middle in a dym, you've got a great chance of cashing. Let the donks do the work for you.

The_Don90

young gun, this was the reason this hand was posted, its not a hard hand to play in non-dym circumstances or against a nit, such as donkeyplop im happy to play it this way (no offence intented to donkeyplop hes just the tightest player i can think of) however against a loose aggressive opponent in a dym is the 3-bet correct expessially taking his stack into content, If i miss and he calls pre as he does then im already really commited to calling an all in on a QJ4 flop for example, ok so if has diamonds then its not too bad, 2 over a gutshot and a flush draw, but this isnt exactly a headace i want.


So say to Shanx and deuces here, if im going to 3-bet am i better to just put im all in pre, or is the call button the correct play in this situation in your opinions?

YOUNG_GUN

Right don da don i have put what i think you played it fine just what you have done if you missed would you have made the same bet? check/folded just interested really mate, also half of my point is if you are 3 betting pre surely you want to get it in post flop regardless of the texture cos you have invested a bit, i do have an unorthadox tactic in these though and i dont mind pushing marginal spots here and put pressures on opponents. On the others views i assume would be better to open shove then get called and miss or even the chance of it as you can fold out most hands but personally i wouldnt as only getting called with made hand which is a race

SHANXTA

if you are just goin to check/fold any flop you miss then this play makes no sense, as assuming villain calls the 3bet 100% of the time, which is probably not too far off, then ~1/3 of the time you win a 1k pot, and ~2/3 of the time you lose a 1k pot. admittedly in the first instance you could end up winning a 2k pot if it comes A high and you have him dominated etc etc, however im still pretty sure that this play is not profitable.  plus, by committing so much of you stack in 2nd pos, you still have 4 players behind you that could wake up with a hand, are any of these likely to pass QQ-77? is a £1 dym, and obv racing in the 1st 2 levels in dyms is a losing strategy.

anyway, for me the best play by a mile is to flat pre, the game/stake is enough to make me feel comfortable that it's unlikely that someone 3bets behind, if they wake up with tens/jacks or better and do, let them av it 

JohnConnor

I think Deuces and Shanxta have got this one spot, no need to 3 bet pre-flop here in my opinion. This is especially true as you think your opponent is going to call anyway, so, effectively, 3 betting achieves nothing. If your opponent isn't going to fold anyway and you're not 3 betting for value as you might in a deep-stack cash game then the 3 bet only inflates the pot with an unmade hand which is not usually advisable in a DYM particularly when any 3 bet is going to make for very shallow stacks compared to the pot post-flop.

As this is a £1 DYM you should be staying out of the way much more really in my opinion as other players are very likely to knock themselves out anyway. Just flat the raise, play very strong if it comes A or K high, if not fold to any bet (unless you have good draws and he crazy min bets or something and even then just flat). Against a weak field you will find better spots later on.

JC

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: playing rusty, but played correctly?:

if you are just goin to check/fold any flop you miss then this play makes no sense, as assuming villain calls the 3bet 100% of the time, which is probably not too far off, then ~1/3 of the time you win a 1k pot, and ~2/3 of the time you lose a 1k pot. admittedly in the first instance you could end up winning a 2k pot if it comes A high and you have him dominated etc etc, however im still pretty sure that this play is not profitable.  plus, by committing so much of you stack in 2nd pos, you still have 4 players behind you that could wake up with a hand, are any of these likely to pass QQ-77? is a £1 dym, and obv racing in the 1st 2 levels in dyms is a losing strategy. anyway, for me the best play by a mile is to flat pre, the game/stake is enough to make me feel comfortable that it's unlikely that someone 3bets behind, if they wake up with tens/jacks or better and do, let them av it 
Posted by SHANXTA

very good point i change mine to this :P