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Good Call / Bad Call?

ricoramb03ricoramb03
edited October 2010 in The Poker Clinic



PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
ricoramb03 Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £40.18
jimifloyd Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £31.43
TheMonk82 Ante  £0.15 £0.60 £42.54
  Your hole cards
  • 2
  • 3
     
dub1 Fold     
jackl Fold     
TheMonk82 Fold     
scotty77 Fold     
ricoramb03 Raise  £0.75 £1.35 £39.43
jimifloyd Call  £0.60 £1.95 £30.83
Flop
   
  • 4
  • 9
  • 5
     
ricoramb03 Bet  £1.46 £3.41 £37.97
jimifloyd Call  £1.46 £4.87 £29.37
Turn
   
  • 7
     
ricoramb03 Bet  £2.44 £7.31 £35.53
jimifloyd Raise  £6.30 £13.61 £23.07
ricoramb03 Call  £3.86 £17.47 £31.67
River
   
  • A
     
ricoramb03 Check     
jimifloyd Bet  £9.00 £26.47 £14.07
ricoramb03 All-in  £31.67 £58.14 £0.00
jimifloyd All-in  £14.07 £72.21 £0.00
ricoramb03 Unmatched bet  £8.60 £63.61 £8.60
ricoramb03 Show
  • 2
  • 3
   
jimifloyd Show
  • 7
  • 7
   
ricoramb03 Win Straight to the 5 £61.81
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Comments

  • ricoramb03ricoramb03
    edited October 2010

    Mr Jimifloyd wasn't too happy with me call I made on the turn during this hand. His raise on the turn gave me pot odds of 3.5/1 and I know i'm 5/1 to hit one of my outs. Based on my notes on Jimifloyd, I know when he makes this raise he has a strong hand and I feel the implied odds if I hit justify my call of his raise on the turn.

    Thoughts please?

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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    unless he is the worlds tightest player, preflop is bad.

    you say you are 5/1 to hit. but if a 6 comes there is 4straight board and you have the idiot end of it and you wont be able to get villains stack. and you are OOP. villain can quite easily check back river when a 6 rolls in and can quite easily fold if you lead into him for anything greater than halfpot.


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  • pryce6pryce6
    edited October 2010
    fish!
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  • ybyb
    edited October 2010
    His sizing is awful, I'd probably call out of stubbornness tbf.
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush
    edited October 2010
    Personally I fold but i'm a nit, like lol said you really only want to see the Ace. Wait for a better spot and don't leak chips out of position imo
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  • rats107rats107
    edited October 2010
    what happened to nitty rico?????
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  • Batkin88Batkin88
    edited October 2010
    i like it just because of the size of his raise on turn!!! i would call that raise!
    My answer to your thread would be good call
    I bet he went mad in chat box lol tut tut its always nice to fish every now and then
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    I think that a lot of the time they have a set or 2 pair here. Chances of 6 8 are pretty small. 6 7 is a chance but they probably just call the turn. A few pocket pairs are a chance aswell. Lets just say we know they have 2 pair or set, that means the A and the 6 are good. So based on that you have 8 outs. 17% chance of hitting. Now look at pot odds. £3.86 to win £17.47, so 386/1747 = 22.1% So you dont have the pot odds by 5%

    However if you add implied odds. He has £26.47 behind. To make it profitable, you need to win £5.24+ on the river.

    calculated by, 386/0.17 = 2271  (the amount you had to call on the turn, £3.86, divided by your pot odds. 17%) 

    2271 - 1747 = 524  Therefore the pot on the turn should have been £22.71 to give yourself pot odds.

    So you know you have to win £5.24 on the river to make the turn call fine. However i think if a 6 comes he checks behind you alot. So you will have to bet out. But I pretty sure if an Ace comes they bet everytime, to get value from 2 pair.

    Having said all this, its only based on them having 2 pair or a set. But pokers not that simple. He could have 6 8, 6 7 or many different random hands. All depends on the player. 

    Im not gonna give any other info away, ive already told you what I think about the hand.
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  • dylan12dylan12
    edited October 2010

    The 3 bet is so small that it does look like it wants to be called or if he puts you on overs then he may be hoping for a 4bet - all depends on his reads on you I suppose. You say yourself you know he has a strong hand so why not call because if you do hit you know your getting his stack. Had he 3 bet more Im folding though fwiw but as YB says - had I seen that 3 bet size I make a stubborn call and high five the dealer once the Ace comes cos I know im stacking him!! Not saying it's a winning play against most players but here v this player you can be certain that he will pay you off if you hit - Also it's nice to dust off the old fishing rod at times and go fishing for cards :) In the process of changing my notes on you now you fish ;)  

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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    5toneface you added his call of the raise to the pot size to give incoreect pot odds it should be 368/1361 ~ 27%
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: Good Call / Bad Call?:
    I think that a lot of the time they have a set or 2 pair here. Chances of 6 8 are pretty small. 6 7 is a chance but they probably just call the turn. A few pocket pairs are a chance aswell. Lets just say we know they have 2 pair or set, that means the A and the 6 are good. So based on that you have 8 outs. 17% chance of hitting. Now look at pot odds. £3.86 to win £17.47, so 386/1747 = 22.1% So you dont have the pot odds by 5% However if you add implied odds. He has £26.47 behind. To make it profitable, you need to win £5.24+ on the river. calculated by, 386/0.17 = 2271  (the amount you had to call on the turn, £3.86, divided by your pot odds. 17%)  2271 - 1747 = 524   Im not gonna give any other info away, ive already told you what I think about the hand.
    Posted by 5toneFace
    so basically u have to be rain man or own bernads watch to make the call..

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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: Good Call / Bad Call?:
    5toneface you added his call of the raise to the pot size to give incoreect pot odds it should be 368/1361 ~ 27%
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    lol, Thats because you do. Research pot odds ftw!!!
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: Good Call / Bad Call?:
    In Response to Re: Good Call / Bad Call? : so basically u have to be rain man or own bernads watch to make the call..
    Posted by hotpotato
    Hahaha Great comment. Luckily I own Bernads watch ;-)
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    the pot is 10 we have 5 to call.  we are getting 10:5 = 2:1 on out money so need 33% equity to make the call

    the way you said it means we are getting 15:5 for 3:1.

    that is wrong.
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    No, The Pot is £13.61, The call is £3.86, So the odds are 13.61:3.86. Now to work that out as a percentage, 3.86 / (13.61+3.86)

    The same as 2:1 = 1/(2+1) = 1/3 =33%
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    If he bets 500 how can the pot be 100? The pots 600, its 500 to call, 600:500, so odds, 500/(600+500) ~ 45%

    FML, U give up yet? I should be charging for this lesson ;-)

    Edit: reply to lol_raise comment :
    using your maths so if the pot is 100 and villain bets 500. the odds are 500/100 which as a percent is 500 / (100+500)this means we need 83% equity to make the call breakeven.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    sigh i have confused myself so much just from you saying we call 3.68 to win 17.47.

    your maths is fine, i just think the wording isnt great
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited October 2010
    In Response to Re: Good Call / Bad Call?:
    sigh i have confused myself so much just from you saying we call 3.68 to win 17.47. your maths is fine, i just think the wording isnt great
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
     
    Ok cool, I was never any good at English at school. This is how I look at it, and imo it the simplist way of working out odds, as you just do 368/1747 ~ 21%
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  • FINSFINS
    edited October 2010
    HAHA RUN GOLDEN RICO STRIKES AGAIN!!!
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    yea basically we win the pot which is 17.47 but we 'win' (as in profit) the 13.xx. all i had to do was just check maths and agree with you but im special so decided to instantly say you are wrong
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN
    edited October 2010
    Stoneface so much win in this thread!
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  • lJAMESllJAMESl
    edited October 2010
    Don't mess with 5toneface when it comes to Maths, he will put even the best to shame.
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