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Bluffaholic - representing hands....

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
edited October 2010 in The Poker Clinic


Sometimes, people say something to me, and it just clicks, something clicks in my head and I all of a sudden understand something that I didn't before. (the last example was YB's post about making ur oppos believe they have FE, and before that, lol raise said something about c betting)

So, Im posting this, in the hope that someone will say something that just makes sense, and helps me.

Obv I just got owned here, and looked like a total plonker.

The guy in the BB is just solid, so Im trying to nik his blinds.

Total junk hand.

I c bet the flop representing an over pair, and he calls.

The turn is an ace, which I can easily represent, But does the fact that I c bet the flop, make it unlikely I have the ace?

Also, he called, which he could well be doing with Ace x, so should I be trying to represent a hand here, or be trying to put HIM on a hand? What should I be thinking?

The river brings the flush, which I could also represent? But he could also have it !!

By betting the river, I could make him fold hands such as top pair on the flop, and even the ace that he binked on the turn? Or is this just stupid?

By trying to represent firstly an overpair on the flop, then an ace on the turn, and then the flush on the river, am I just actually representing nothing at all?????

Also, the hand below is just an example, my question is about bluffing and structuring bluffs in general, so when the "fold pre" comments come, how about some general advice?

Thanx.

DOHHHHHHH Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £56.86
xxxBig blind  £0.50 £0.75 £46.50
  Your hole cards
  • 5
  • Q
     
WILKOSON12 Fold     
dylly Fold     
archers Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £1.75 £2.50 £55.11
xxxCall  £1.50 £4.00 £45.00
Flop
   
  • 3
  • 4
  • 3
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £3.00 £7.00 £52.11
xxx Call  £3.00 £10.00 £42.00
Turn
   
  • A
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £7.00 £17.00 £45.11
xxxCall  £7.00 £24.00 £35.00
River
   
  • 8
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £14.50 £38.50 £30.61
xxx
I lose probably between 5-10 pots a night doing this, obviously it gets through sometimes, and has other benefits, when people stack off with 2nd pair to me when I have the nuts....but I wish I could pick my spots better, to limit the losses, and boost the win-rate.
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Comments

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited October 2010
    Found one where it worked, this was more influenced by my opponent than the board texture.

    What should you be thinking about mainly? Playing the player, or the board?
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    xxxSmall blind  £0.20 £0.20 £41.89
    DOHHHHHHH Big blind  £0.40 £0.60 £67.71
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • 3
    		     
    tatohead Fold     
    torres215 Fold     
    OMahonyO Fold     
    PoxDoctor8 Fold     
    xxxRaise  £1.00 £1.60 £40.89
    DOHHHHHHH Call  £0.80 £2.40 £66.91
    Flop
       
    • 4
    • 5
    • 9
    		     
    xxx Bet  £2.00 £4.40 £38.89
    DOHHHHHHH Call  £2.00 £6.40 £64.91
    Turn
       
    • J
    		     
    xxxBet  £3.00 £9.40 £35.89
    DOHHHHHHH Raise  £10.00 £19.40 £54.91
    xxxCall  £7.00 £26.40 £28.89
    River
       
    • Q
    		     
    xxxCheck     
    DOHHHHHHH Bet  £17.50 £43.90 £37.41
    xxxFold     
    DOHHHHHHH Muck     
    DOHHHHHHH Win  £25.08  £62.49
    DOHHHHHHH Return  £17.50 £1.32 £79.99
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited October 2010
    i think u shud look to fold junk in the SB. u say u are trying to 'steal his blind'.. not hugeley profitable in a cash game oop.

    the prob is, it may initially appear profitable, as in (for example) he will fold to ur raise 4/5 times.. making it immediately profitable to steal his blind. this is unless u do what u do here which is barrell into him with air.. (if) this guy is playing 1 in five hands, that is the top 20% of holdem starting hands, dont barrell into the top 20% of starting hands on the flop turn & river, its -EV..
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    i like the first hand except bet bigger on river  i don tlike the second hand becauase all your value hands should be raising the flop. you rep J9s only imo.


    unfortunately as offshoot will also happily tell you i cant stop bluffing either :(
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  • shelskishelski
    edited October 2010
    In Response to Bluffaholic - representing hands....:
    Sometimes, people say something to me, and it just clicks, something clicks in my head and I all of a sudden understand something that I didn't before. (the last example was YB's post about making ur oppos believe they have FE, and before that, lol raise said something about c betting) So, Im posting this, in the hope that someone will say something that just makes sense, and helps me. Obv I just got owned here, and looked like a total plonker. The guy in the BB is just solid, so Im trying to nik his blinds. Total junk hand. I c bet the flop representing an over pair, and he calls. The turn is an ace, which I can easily represent, But does the fact that I c bet the flop, make it unlikely I have the ace? Also, he called, which he could well be doing with Ace x, so should I be trying to represent a hand here, or be trying to put HIM on a hand? What should I be thinking? The river brings the flush, which I could also represent? But he could also have it !! By betting the river, I could make him fold hands such as top pair on the flop, and even the ace that he binked on the turn? Or is this just stupid? By trying to represent firstly an overpair on the flop, then an ace on the turn, and then the flush on the river, am I just actually representing nothing at all????? Also, the hand below is just an example, my question is about bluffing and structuring bluffs in general, so when the "fold pre" comments come, how about some general advice? Thanx. DOHHHHHHH Small blind   £0.25 £0.25 £56.86 xxx Big blind   £0.50 £0.75 £46.50   Your hole cards 5 Q       WILKOSON12 Fold         dylly Fold         archers Fold         DOHHHHHHH Raise   £1.75 £2.50 £55.11 xxx Call   £1.50 £4.00 £45.00 Flop     3 4 3       DOHHHHHHH Bet   £3.00 £7.00 £52.11 xxx  Call   £3.00 £10.00 £42.00 Turn     A       DOHHHHHHH Bet   £7.00 £17.00 £45.11 xxx Call   £7.00 £24.00 £35.00 River     8       DOHHHHHHH Bet   £14.50 £38.50 £30.61 xxx I lose probably between 5-10 pots a night doing this, obviously it gets through sometimes, and has other benefits, when people stack off with 2nd pair to me when I have the nuts....but I wish I could pick my spots better, to limit the losses, and boost the win-rate.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    This may seem obvious but what hand is your opponent trying to represent ? If you don't respect  that then .....
    Also the way you play does your opponent need a hand ? Sometimes simplicity is cool.
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited October 2010

    you dont have to win every pot, less is more. see matt affleck 2009 main event! 

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited October 2010
    Yeh this is just one of many hands I could have posted, Im looking for general advice when setting up and executing a bluff.

    At what point in the first hand would you have given up? Assume u mis-clicked pre flop.......

    Do you just give up the flop? The board kept on giving me encouragement to try and represent.....

    I get quite alot of them through, but I also get caught alot. Is that just gonna happen when you take a random sample of say 10 spots? 

    There must be something in the hands I win, that I do better than in the hands I lose, I just don't know what it is.....If I can work that out, I think I can boost my win-rate.

    Im never gonna be a nit, Ive tried it, and ended up hating the game. I gotta get good at doing what I enjoy doing, which is trying to run over the nits. 

    Still hoping someone will say something that clicks! :)

    lol raise what wud u do in hand 2? - Just fold the flop? Im becoming a floataholic as well as a bluffoholic - (having 2 weeks playing on stars I found this to be a good strategy, as they actually think the hands through and fold to scare cards on turn and/or river........doesn't seem to work on sky tho, obv)
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited October 2010
    nitting up is cool again :)

    the hands where your plays get thru is because villian has air, the times it doesnt get thru is because villain has equity at showdown.

    you shud download the free 60 day trial version of PT3 and play on a compatible site, for a minimum 10k hands at the same stake.. then review your game.

    or short of that, video a session of u playing on sky and ask for a reg to do you a massive favour and sweat the vid and analyse it for u. ideally someone that plays / understands the style u want to play.
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited October 2010

    i can guarantee there is no 'magic play' that makes an opponent pass their whole range, you can certainly play in a style which will massively increase your redline, but it is ussually to the detrement of your blueline.

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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE
    edited October 2010
    i can see myself playing hand2 the same if i was tilting, if not id prefer to float the turn if i have read on his sizing and raise rivers, or just fold
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