Flop shove with nut flush draw?

DannyMcs

Hi folks,
I've had this situation three times in the last couple of days, twice live, once just now in the deepie, and wondering if I'm making the right play? Essentially my question is, if I hit the flop pretty well (top pair A kicker in this case) BUT the flop is 3 to a flush BUT I also have the NFD, am I right to shove on a substantial bet?

In the scenario below V1 is an unknown but well above average stacked so I think he deserves some respect. V2 is a top notch player, I have played with a little, railed a few times and has a big rep on Sky so I don't see him making such a big flop bet with air.

Hand History #302238526 (21:46 27/10/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
DannyMcs	Small blind		200.00	200.00	9930.00
-	Big blind		400.00	600.00	13100.00
	Your hole cards	K A
villain1	Call		400.00	1000.00	15775.00
-	Fold
villain2	Raise		1200.00	2200.00	18760.00
DannyMcs	Call		1000.00	3200.00	8930.00
-	Fold
villain1	Call		800.00	4000.00	14975.00
Flop
		4 J K
DannyMcs	Check
villain1	Check
villain2	Bet		3000.00	7000.00	15760.00
DannyMcs	All-in		8930.00	15930.00	0.00
villain1	Call		8930.00	24860.00	6045.00
villain2	Call		5930.00	30790.00	9830.00
Turn
		2
villain1	Check
villain2	Check
River
		A
villain1	Bet		400.00	31190.00	5645.00
villain2	Call		400.00	31590.00	9430.00
DannyMcs	Show	K A
vlllain1	Show	Q 10
villain2	Muck	K J
villain1	Win	Straight to the Ace	31590.00		37235.00

My read was V2 had either a made flush or hit a set, v1 I have no idea as I only sat down a few orbits previous, but I figure if he calls I'm no worse off than I am before really.

I think V1's play is probably crazy here but that's kind of beside the point: do you shove on V2's initial raise with only top pair and the draw? It seemed like a no-brainer to me but I've been knocked out of three MTTs in the last three days in a very similar scenario, and now I'm not so sure...

yb

All in pre

DannyMcs

Fair enough, that would probably have saved me some pain My PF thinking, such as it was, was that if I hit the flop I probably have villain1 beat unless it's KJJ or a 3 to a flush/straight and I could really do with a double up so I took the risk.

I very rarely shove with ak & 1 raiser with one to play unless I'm < 10bb. Not being aggressive enough with the slick, do you think?

The_Don90

for sure, add the aggression, expessially at higher blinds

Batkin88

shove pre from the raise, you dont want to be making a 3 way pot with A K.
You will take the pot down there and then and wont have this decision.
However as played your shove is fine on the flop with nut flush draw the only other option is fold, just never call.

Hope this helps

DannyMcs

Thanks folks, I've been mulling this over and in retrospect it's clear you're correct, the PF shove was the way to go here.

shelski

In Response to Re: Flop shove with nut flush draw?:

All in pre
Posted by yb

FIRST TIME EVERY TIME. This cat knows his biscuits.

YOUNG_GUN

Shove pre, less then 10bb auto shove with AK

FlashFlush

Not sure if a SHOVE is right pre like everyone is saying, if you 3bet to 3k you still have 6k behind (15 blinds) so there is still room to play if all goes wrong. But you have position and will then have control of the hand....

On 2nd thoughts you say you have a lot of respect for villain2 (Thanks!) so just shove and then you can't be out played post flop.

p.s I think villan2 is an absolute legend and should hit a fullhouse and won the pot ;-)

goodylad21

I agree 20% increase on your stack without going to showdown, its an easy shove + if villian 2 is a good reg his raise from the BTN should mean very little, he would need a monster to call half his stack off, highly unlikely !!