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ONLINE POKER - IS IT A FIX????? All Comments Please
This is not a moan but a serious discussion for all those that which to post their feelings
On numerous occasions I have seen and be part of bad beats but none are more ridiculous than quads being beaten by quads with runner runner. I have come to the conclusion that why do players who play online poker allow a computer decide their fate. Take for example a most recent hand I had pocket Kings and called an aggresive player preflop - the flop comes down J 3 K rainbow, he bets pot I re-raise he flat calls, so I put him on a j or queens. The turn comes a 7 he goes all in, so I still believe I have the best hand with TRIP KINGS he has pocket JJ and hits a further Jack on the river. 10 handed table so what are the chances. I strongly believe that the computer does not select random cards, but has other criteria whether it be a larger chip stack at the table or a more regular player i.e someone who deposits more, the question is how us being players can we understand this criteria and how can we base it on trust that the cards dealt and produced truly reflect a real poker game. The simple answer is we cannot, we base it on trust without one truly knowing the software being used and how the computer selects the cards. It would be interesting to see how card rooms use this software and whether Sky Poker would be willing to demonstrate or show the software to put us players at ease that it is based on randomness and that we are not being treated unfairly.
Each of spend vast amounts of money so we deserve to know this. How often do you go all in preflop and get sucked out by runner runner? How often is flop say a 6 3 with one club and you hold two clubs the turn produce another club to instigate you to stay in the hand, its so predictable. How often do you see AA v KK and in come occasions with QQ go all in together pre-flop. I have been playing live poker for over 5 years and I can strongly say that online poker does not reflect the true reality of the game.
I will of course still continue to play on-line, but i see so many of the above examples that its about time someone voiced their opinions and for one online card room to act and show us how it all works.
Octupus
Comments
If you think its fixed don't play, simple.
What is the "true reality of the game?"
Live poker is only one reality, online poker is merely another. The biggest mistake players make is thinking they are both the same, when they are nothing of the sort.
It's like cricket. 20/20 and test cricket are both "cricket", but there are many professional players who excel in one format and are left floundering in the other. Why? Because they are unable to adjust to the demands of the other discipline.
Until you recognise the differences and adapt your game to suit online play, you will not succeed.
The only way to improve either your live or online play is to recognise your mistakes and learn from each session you play. (Whether you win or lose). There is no quick fix. It takes time, patience and hard work. If you honestly believe there is any doubt as to the legitimacy of what you are doing, please don't do it. Would you gamble on a race which you thought was fixed? This only creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Everytime you lose (or even not win as much as you think you should), you start focusing on something which is out of your control and cannot change. This will only take you backwards in your progression as a poker player.
In short, if you're playing for fun and think it's fixed, don't play it. If you're a serious player and think it's fixed, definitely don't play it. Otherwise, work hard on your game and go and become a consistent winning player. I wish you the best of luck on your poker journey.
Jingle.
that is an unfair allegation
if you cant trust this site you shouldn't be playing
now can a Mod please forward this to Area 51 thanks
Ok your missing two key points in my mind here octopus.
1st: Live poker ur looking at 5 to 15 hands an hour online your looking at 60 so your going to 33% upwards more bad beats. You donrt get the chance to sit down for a 24hr session live so your going to see so much more bad beats online.
2nd: This is what really annoys me what if you had that J??? this thread wouldnt be here. I bet since being on this site u have rivered cards and won pots. (Also you saying about the suited card coming on the turn to keep u in, why are u calling for a backdoor flush draw?? and why do u expect to hit it?)
I really like sky poker and i have had my fair share of bad beats and given them out aswell its just online poker.
Im glad u say your going to carry on playing but dont post this kind of thing in the poker clinic its not helping anyones game, and it isnt helping are new players.
Just to share this bad beat with u!! NL50 table or mayble NL30 i had trip kings on flop i shoved on a rainbow flop which read K 8 7 i got called by the mighty SIMSIM who held 7 2 o/s he turned a 7 and then rivered a 7 i didnt moan i was annoyed but its poker it was quite funny. But i held 2 3 diamonds in Deepie earlier and flopped a flush and some poor bloke had pocket aces and hit his set. So u win some u lose some.
Just play and keep this stuff to area 51 good luck at ur tables
To do so would require numerous developers to be aware of the scam, any of whom could cause a huge stink (and probably destroy the company) if they left with bad blood. Obviously at least a handful of people in top management would need to know about it too. It would never stay a secret forever.
The single biggest argument against it though: why would they bother? I've heard people say they might do it to create action and bigger rakes, but poker players being what they are there's going to be action anyway! It makes no sense that they would risk everything just to make a tiny bit more by rigging action deals.
And, as people have said, if you really do believe it's rigged it is, to be blunt, stupid to play.
Accusations are commonplace from people who have been on a losing streak, but I have never seen any proper statistics to back up these peoples suspicions. Everybody needs to remind themselves sometimes that poker is part skill and part luck. I play on Sky Poker 100% confident that the decks are randomly shuffled.
I really think that you raise a lot of fair and interesting points.
When i started playing i had a lot of these problems, not on Sky btw. I began to realise that a lot of them were caused by all-in pre-flop action. I lost 7 consecutive 2 way all-ins with A-A. Most of these to trash hands like a-j , a-7 os ( 7 makes str8 , yeah right ) it really started to make me cross. I'm no maths lord but i realised that the cumulative odds of such events where starting to get too ridiculous. Other things were troubling me too. Like how can you run bad when multi-tabling on ALL 8 tables if everything is truly random ? I'm a pretty solid player and have a set of rules that i have evolved. I became disturbed. I thought that the site ( part of the cake network btw ) appeared to be defending bad players thru a series of statistical unlikelihoods. Not just against me either. My logic told me things were wrong, my intuition did too. This was an experience that was something very far removed from the realities of live play.I would go thru these dark episodes then suddenly, as if by magic, after i'd lost a big number of buy-ins going into showdowns as a considerable statistical favourite everything would change. I'd start flopping quads a few times and hit set after set on the flop. I'd run like god on practically all 8 tables.It seemed to me that this was equally statistically unlikely. This was too weird. It almost seemed like an apology or some positive reaction to stop even the most simple-minded of players from cashing out and stop playing altogether.
I made a number of adaptations. Here are a few.
Stopped playing 6 max and switched to 9 max. Cut down the variance, get more hands for my blinds. A gentler form of the game in many ways.
Never all-in with k-k even if i suspected my opponent was an idiot with Ace rag or an underpair. Let them take what was in the middle. I can wait. Better to lose a little than get sucked out on and do your buy-in. Why because k-k seemed to lose more than 30% to any single ace far too often
Only all-in with A-A pre. Always.
Pairs are god. Just set mine over and over again. It doesn't matter as much about position with pairs because you either hit or miss. Most people cont. bet anyway so just call-miss-fold. Hit-and mash By far the most profitable hands are small pkt pairs. and my favourite 2-2. I have won most with these hands. A-A is peoples favourite hand but i don't know why. Sure you can win with it but you lose a LOT with it too. Mainly when you get mined and pot stuck. Once you get raised early you pretty much know what is in the opponents range. 2 hits the flop and it's invisible to naive players.
Unless previous action dictates limp and keep limping. ALWAYS opt for pot control until you are sure you are ahead. First in 9-max with A-A ? limp. You raise you get called by miners. Get raised re-raise big to isolate. And I mean big. Don't give them the odds to call with pairs and by that make sure your bet is more than 10% of their stack at the VERY LEAST. Yes it's like telling them i have got A-A fold now. good i'm happy to take whats in the middle there and then and go back to mining again For me now A-A is just 2 cards that can make you do your stack like any others.
9 max first in a-k or less fold. I simply dont care anymore. I'm not playing it oop. However call with any pair and i mean ANY. Never raise just call reraises when you realise that you can win 10 times (not 8) that bet if you hit. If their stack does not allow this just fold. It doesn't matter. Over time if you constantly obey this rule you will win.
Are you getting my drift ? I want to see flops. As time has gone on I have further adapted my game but by sticking to these basic rules i have approx 800 % ROI. The rest you learn for yourself.
I play a lot on UB now and always check on poker-edge when i see new players and guess what ? Almost entirely all the players that consistantly make money are either red-warning players or mice ( passive pre-flop and aggressive post ). The players that are categorised as sharks and play aggressively pre and post and 'correctly' are almost ALWAYS down at the lower levels. Some of them are a few grand down because they didn't adapt to online play correctly.They must be very angry and confused. I'm not surprised. I used to play like that and found out sharpish that it DOESN'T WORK .Myself and the other successful players just think aggressive, predictable, naive, yum-yum. Mine this fool to death.
In many ways this is a bit sad. This isn't how poker is 'supposed' be played. But, i like poker. I like poker less when i'm paying my opponents to play me. Who cares ultimately just make a profit.
Do i think online is rigged ? Hmmmm i really am not sure to this day.Some sites are stranger than others.
To be fair from what i've seen Sky appears fair to me. If you can be card dead for extended periods then i am glad. Why ? Because i know it's not rigged for action. Even on sites where i think it is i know what to do now. By adapting as detailed above.
Good post!
IS IT A FIX ... i'd say it is a flawed deal ... this is why you get the bad beats you do with on-line poker or the set up hands (as known)
any who thinks it is random are off the mark ... why ...because there are mathmatic's involved to generate a deal .. as soon as you use mathmatic's it has to follow a formula therefore is restricted and unable to be truely random deal ...
hi all ive been reading these post about sites being rigged with some intrest.
i have read alot of post so i think now is a good time to say what i think.
1. do i think online poker is rigged no
2. do i think the sites are fixed in some way for the site to make money from players no
3. do i think sites are fixed for the sites to take rake yes.
but when you think about it no rake no tourney prize money.
4.if a site is fixed to take lets say £1.00 from every £10.00 pot.
how much of that is future prize money.
5. if a site was fixed dont you think they would fix it in there favour.
not in the favour of another player.after all we moan at the other player
on the table that hits his runner runner or his river or his trips .
but all been said the guy is another player on the table .we all hit them
what do you expect the other player to do give you your pot money back and say sorry
that hand was fixed.
. im sorry guys and girls we come to gamble if you win you win if you lose you lose.
this is not a post to offend any one on this site.
i think its a good site friendly with lots of banter.
ps to those that realy do think its fixed just dont play.
I certainly couldn't.