Just what does this raise mean? Is it really strong?

silentbob

Another one from tonight's session.

I vaguely recognise villains name & think I’ve come up against them previously but have no notes (it could also be that there’s so many similar names on this site that I’m mistaking them for someone else?)

Villain has only been at the table for a few minutes if that & I have no reads whatsoever. I pick up a nice hand & thought I’d raised it enough pre to get rid of a couple of people so was pretty horrified when it went 4 way! As it is the flop comes down decent enough & obviously I ain’t bothered about the shorty shoving whatsoever, but with an overpair to the board I really want to try & narrow the field a bit here.

So with no reads just what the hell does that min 4-bet mean? Is it really strong? Is it something like A10 so TPTK?

What do I do here? If I make the call then can I realistically get away on later streets given that they’ll be ~£10 in the middle & villain only has £4 back? Should this be an easy fold or is that just too nitty?

Also, is my bet sizing here really poor? It's something that I've always struggled with a bit!

Apologies for the change of font during the post as well. Technical error meant I had to copy & paste from word! 

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
-----	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£0.72
-----	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£1.86
	Your hole cards	Q Q
-----	Call		£0.08	£0.20	£18.59
silentbob	Raise		£0.40	£0.60	£17.49
villain	Call		£0.40	£1.00	£8.07
-----	Call		£0.36	£1.36	£0.36
-----	Fold
-----	Call		£0.32	£1.68	£18.27
Flop
		3 7 10
-----	All-in		£0.36	£2.04	£0.00
-----	Call		£0.36	£2.40	£17.91
silentbob	Raise		£2.00	£4.40	£15.49
villain	Raise		£4.00	£8.40	£4.07
-----	Fold
silentbob	???

beaneh

When I raise the flop it's completely with the intention of getting the rest of the money in.

GREGHOGG

Hi Bob, i'm not folding this in a low limit cash game unless i have reads. He could have anything. Just reship it in and hope imo.

Bet sizing fine imo.

DeucesLive

I don't like it much, reeks. But I'm also never folding with an overpair, he could have A10/K10, JJ is possible too. 89? maybe, don't think so. AA or KK could have been slowplayed preflop which has you beat, 33/77/1010 are all very possible.

With what he has back, I think I just sigh and set him allin, hoping he's overplaying top pair. But I think a hand like 33 is massively likely here.

Pisto

In Response to Re: Just what does this raise mean? Is it really strong?:

I don't like it much, reeks. But I'm also never folding with an overpair, he could have A10/K10, JJ is possible too. 89? maybe, don't think so. AA or KK could have been slowplayed preflop which has you beat, 33/77/1010 are all very possible. With what he has back, I think I just sigh and set him allin, hoping he's overplaying top pair. But I think a hand like 33 is massively likely here.
Posted by DeucesLive

Totally agree, you have to make the call and perhaps not feel great about it, but I can't fold QQ here. 

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: Just what does this raise mean? Is it really strong?:

When I raise the flop it's completely with the intention of getting the rest of the money in.
Posted by beaneh

yeah but thats before we get cold 3bet  by someone who hasnt acted yet to double our bet which means its almost never a draw because his FE is perceived to be 0. its never a pure bluff because just lol at bluffing here.
we need to know he will do this with TP hands  in order to get it in imo and we have no reads



(i think you misread hh and thought that original donk bettor now 3bet bob)

SALT1R3

Yeah to me this stinks of a made set and I'd wait for another opportunity. I'd probably fold even if the maths says call lol!!

silentbob

The thing is, given villains possible range here I think I'm actually beating a reasonable chunk of it, especially if it includes any 10x Xx hands but that raise was just screaming to be called. Obviously I'm losing to 33, 77, 1010, KK & AA but he could quite easily have something like 88 or 99 as well (& tbh, I don't think that's the worst flop in the world for those sorts of hands either particularly if he sees my bet as a standard c-bet with overs)

I thought about it & with time running out I made the call. Turn came what I thought was a blank & it all went in. Villain had AA so nh move on. Personally I'm never slow playing aces in that spot but each to their own & all that.

DeucesLive

hmm, after a bet, call and reraise, I think you can eliminate 88/99 from the possibilities, personally. He only raises here with 33/77/TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA and perhaps A10/K10/89.

Now that I think about it, because there's already a person allin, maybe a fold would be better. You haven't invested all that much in, there's really not many hands at all you're beating, and you're going to see his cards regardless, so calling doesn't give you information. If he does turn over a TPTK hand or draw, then you can make a note and take him on harder next time, but at this point- I think maybe giving him credit for the hand is better.

But I think in the timeframe given, I probably would have called too, not enough time to go through the options I don't think.