Omaha River

Wilhelm

I don't know anything about omaha really.  I just want to know whether I am overplaying my hand on the river by shoving after the raise.  It's just QQ and 77 I'm loosing to, right?  Should I just flat-call after the raise and does anyone ever fold it?  Thanks in advance.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Wilhelm	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.07
WALLY423	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.56
	Your hole cards	6 Q 7 K
Tevos	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.91
scouse1234	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.32
sole42	Fold
Wilhelm	Call		£0.02	£0.16	£5.05
WALLY423	Check
Flop
		2 4 7
Wilhelm	Check
WALLY423	Check
Tevos	Check
scouse1234	Check
Turn
		Q
Wilhelm	Bet		£0.16	£0.32	£4.89
WALLY423	Call		£0.16	£0.48	£1.40
Tevos	Call		£0.16	£0.64	£4.75
scouse1234	Fold
River
		7
Wilhelm	Bet		£0.40	£1.04	£4.49
WALLY423	Fold
Tevos	Raise		£1.84	£2.88	£2.91
Wilhelm	All-in		£4.49	£7.37	£0.00
Tevos	All-in		£2.91	£10.28	£0.00
Wilhelm	Unmatched bet		£0.14	£10.14	£0.14
Wilhelm	Show	6 Q 7 K
Tevos	Show	8 9 Q Q
Tevos	Win	Full House, Queens and 7s	£9.44		£9.44

Talon

  Ok let me go through this piece by piece.

  Preflop: You have was is technically known as a steaming pile of dodo droppings. Snap fold it is not even worth making up the blinds with this type of garbage hand.

  Flop: you have nothing and rightly check.

 Turn: Just look at the board.There are multiple straight draws as well as 2 flush draws so the chance of you taking the pot down there are next to none.So this means all you are doing is building up the pot with top 2 and no redraws.Basically a bad move, what you should be doing is check/folding or if weak lead then check/calling.

 River: Ok you have the third nuts and your lead out here is fine. Then when the raise comes in you do not want to ask what is beating you but what would they raise with. There are only 5 realistic possibilities. 22 44 77 QQ and a flush.You are beating 3 and losing to 2 so basically there is no way you can fold there. As soon as you shove then we can easily narrow down the range even further so they will basically only call with a hand that is beating you. So for that reason a shove for value is a bad move and the flat call is the best option here.


   You got yourself into a large amount of trouble here at 3 different points.Preflop fold DONT call. Turn check DONT bet and river call DONT reraise.On a sidenote i think that the turn was played really badly by Tevos by flat calling with the nuts on a very draw heavy board when the should have reraised.

 Moral of this hand: 1) Dont play really bad hands unless you get in for free.
                             2) Top 2 plus no draw is very weak and should be played cautiously because sometimes you get the river you want and it costs you dearly.


  Hope this helps in some way.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: Omaha River:

  There are only 5 realistic possibilities. 22 44 77 QQ and a flush.You are beating 3 and losing to 2 so basically there is no way you can fold there.
Posted by Talon

there is only 1 combo each of 77 & QQ so we really are beating the 6 combo's of lower sets and losing to 2 combos of higher boats



as this is plo4 people will be raise calling with flushes and lots of smaller boats (74,72 etc) so i think river is fine

TommyD

In Response to Re: Omaha River:

  Ok let me go through this piece by piece.   Preflop: You have was is technically known as a steaming pile of dodo droppings. Snap fold it is not even worth making up the blinds with this type of garbage hand.   Flop: you have nothing and rightly check.  Turn: Just look at the board.There are multiple straight draws as well as 2 flush draws so the chance of you taking the pot down there are next to none.So this means all you are doing is building up the pot with top 2 and no redraws.Basically a bad move, what you should be doing is check/folding or if weak lead then check/calling.  River: Ok you have the third nuts and your lead out here is fine. Then when the raise comes in you do not want to ask what is beating you but what would they raise with. There are only 5 realistic possibilities. 22 44 77 QQ and a flush.You are beating 3 and losing to 2 so basically there is no way you can fold there. As soon as you shove then we can easily narrow down the range even further so they will basically only call with a hand that is beating you. So for that reason a shove for value is a bad move and the flat call is the best option here.    You got yourself into a large amount of trouble here at 3 different points.Preflop fold DONT call. Turn check DONT bet and river call DONT reraise.On a sidenote i think that the turn was played really badly by Tevos by flat calling with the nuts on a very draw heavy board when the should have reraised.  Moral of this hand: 1) Dont play really bad hands unless you get in for free.                              2) Top 2 plus no draw is very weak and should be played cautiously because sometimes you get the river you want and it costs you dearly.   Hope this helps in some way.
Posted by Talon

Talon

Not sure if this would change your thinking but he has 2nd Nuts here, not 3rd nuts as he has the 7 blocker to the quads.

Wil

Completely agree with everything Talon has said up to the river, and even then I'm inclined to agree in principal.  You have two problems on the river.  Firstly, again agreeing with Talon, the villain has hidden top set under the bed with an awful flat.  Secondly the river brings in the flush draw.  Now we are very much in player dependant territory.  If they are poor PLO players or think they are playing Hold 'em, some players stack off with a flush (and not even the nut flush).  However a solid player is rarely calling a reraise on the river with anything less than 2nd nuts and even that's a little south for some.

Frankly playing your bag of spanners and making a 2nd House on the river I might well stack off against certain players (and judging by the flat on the turn, maybe this player), but the mistakes would have been several and mainly earlier in the hand.

Talon

  Thanks tommy for pointing out my stupid error.Yes it is the second nuts not third as 77 is not possible. Which does now shift the tendency more towards player reads than hand values. And with the fact that your opponent has slow played the best hand to the point of trying to get outdrawn it is hard not to stack off.

  But still most of what i have said about the hand still stands in principal.Omaha is a game of aggression and paranoia. You showed aggression at the wrong time and did not use any paranoia. Paranoia is the best thing you have for saving money at this game as it will allow you to fold third and fourth nuts and (read dependant) even second nuts.At this level you will find players playing any 4 cards because they might get lucky, this is to be avoided at all cost because it is losing play overall.The best way to play especially in cash games is to tighten up your starting range to 3+ nut drawing hands and then to bet aggressively when you hit sets/straights or pick up big draws. Remembering also that hands like overpair, TPTK or even 2 pair are virtually worthless