I was getting the odds......

MAXALLY

The above typed into the chat box after this my exit hand in tonight's rebuy ME by Mr X. I do rate the villian as a good player and respect his game but this was 2 hours into the tournament and I am still unsure about the call. Can someone explain in simple terms what he meant by the above comment, thanks. (he is not called MR X btw). I would expect this kind of call earlier in this kind of tournament or obv later on when all in the cash but I for one could not make this call. If I can get this odds information, it might improve my game. I have also just noticed Mr X didnt go onto cash in this event.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
blackviper	Small blind		200.00	200.00	6750.50
smashem	Big blind		400.00	600.00	6419.00
	Your hole cards	7 7
haddock214	Fold
MAXALLY	Call		400.00	1000.00	6356.00
4fingersAA	Fold
Mr X	Raise		2000.00	3000.00	12925.50
blackviper	Fold
smashem	Fold
MAXALLY	All-in		6356.00	9356.00	0.00
Mr X	Call		4756.00	14112.00	8169.50
MAXALLY	Show	7 7
Mr X	Show	K Q
Flop
		2 Q 10
Turn
		3
River
		Q
Mr X	Win	Three Queens	14112.00		22281.50

DOHHHHHHH

Just open shove, and save all the hastle.

Once he 3 bets, with QK against your stack, he can't really fold unless he's doing it with total junk, which he shouldn't be.

You should be raise calling, or open shoving imo.

I don't like the limp(from u) or the raise (from him), unless you are both doing this to try and get the money in, (u knew he was gonna raise light after u limp), and (he knew u were limp-folding alot) I dont think either of those statements r true, so pretty bad play all round imo.

Once he raises your limp, he can't fold when u shove.

MAXALLY

There had been a lot of raising on this table with junkish hands so, yes I was hoping/expecting a raise and I was going to jam it in. But I can see your logic JJ so thanks for the reply

DOHHHHHHH

Thing is with your stack, and you're hand, once there's a raise behind, he's not really gonna be raise folding, ever.

Which is cool, if u have a hand to exploit that - but.....77, is nowhere near strong enough..........

I suck at mtt's m8 - wait for someone who knows what they're on about

GREGHOGG

So we have 16bbs utg +1 and 77 on a loose table. If there were antes, this would be an easy open jam.

The way you have played it would be perfect if you had AA or KK. Once you reraise your stack in, he has to call about another 4000 to win 10000. this is a nice price unless he puts you on AA or KK specifically. He also has 8000 behind if he loses.  

In summary, Its a fold, or a jam preflop. Limping here is not great imo. Its too late to set mine.

Im folding pre prob... but like i say if we had antes, i shove.

DOHHHHHHH

Greg, have u changed your reply??????????

Im slightly less fired up than the first time I read it.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: I was getting the odds......:

Greg, have u changed your reply?????????? Im slightly less fired up than the first time I read it.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Yes, it makes sense now! lol

I was typing before thinking before, i thought he was utg and i misread the stacks and stuff.

MAXALLY

Cheers for your reply Greg. Yeah, that all makes sense to me.

beaneh

In Response to Re: I was getting the odds......:

So we have 16bbs utg +1 and 77 on a loose table. If there were antes, this would be an easy open jam. The way you have played it would be perfect if you had AA or KK. Once you reraise your stack in, he has to call about another 4000 to win 10000. this is a nice price unless he puts you on AA or KK specifically. He also has 8000 behind if he loses.   In summary, Its a fold, or a jam preflop. Limping here is not great imo. Its too late to set mine. Im folding pre prob... but like i say if we had antes, i shove.
Posted by GREGHOGG

This thinking is all good (dohs inital post above is right one for once lol )

I think 44/55 is the fold it line 77 is strong enough, enough worse pairs can call + these people with KQ etc.

You'd rather open jam and have him fold KQ than raise call it off and showdown vs KQ.

DOHHHHHHH

Watch this vid......and the 2nd part......

http://pokertube.com/free-poker-videos?movie=15570&title=Nightly__100k__1_of_2__by_Illegit

GaryQQQ

Needing to pay 4756 to win a pot worth 14112 is the odds he's referring to, thats the about the same as 2/1. His call was mathematicly correct against anything except AA, KK, QQ or AK. If he correctly put you on an underpair he was getting a very good price, put these precise hole cards into Pokerstove and do the maths and it works out he will make on average 1777 chips profit per call in this situation. You could compare his decision to betting on the flip of a coin where you stand to make a £2 profit for a correct call, or a £1 loss if you get it wrong, obviously it's a bet you should take as many times as you can.

Open limping a pair when you have less than 20BB is a bad play (unless you're deliberately trying to induce a shove). This is not the time to be set mining, small/medium pairs are terrible post flop, shove or fold pre.

Mohican

It's 4756 to win  9356 not 14112 so he's getting a gnat's tadger short of 2/1 on his money. So he's getting the price to call against hands that don't dominate him(AA,KK,AK,AQ). That said, his raise size commits him to the pot once you shove, so it's a bad play by him if you've limped to induce a raise with AA,KK.AK.AQ.

scotty77

limping pre is terrible in this spot unless you have QQs and above IMO.