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What was wrong with my thinking?
1st hand in a MTT. The guy UTG raises 2BB.
Call
Call
Button (me) call with 55
SB call
BB call
Flop = K52 rainbow
UTG goes all-in
Now it's folded round to me and I think there is just no way he's got 3 kings. 99% of people would either check or make a min bet in that position. Going all-in is madness isn't it? What are you going to get called by?
Convinced I've got this nailed, I call.
Villain flops over KK and I'm gone.
Now this wasn't just a hand of cards, it was a game of people. I completely misjudged my opponent. Should the fact that I had no information on him have made me fold? I don't believe that I was just unlucky, I had exactly the hand the villain wanted me to have; you could say that he played me like a banjo.
What was wrong with my analysis, because it was clearly wrong?
Call
Call
Button (me) call with 55
SB call
BB call
Flop = K52 rainbow
UTG goes all-in
Now it's folded round to me and I think there is just no way he's got 3 kings. 99% of people would either check or make a min bet in that position. Going all-in is madness isn't it? What are you going to get called by?
Convinced I've got this nailed, I call.
Villain flops over KK and I'm gone.
Now this wasn't just a hand of cards, it was a game of people. I completely misjudged my opponent. Should the fact that I had no information on him have made me fold? I don't believe that I was just unlucky, I had exactly the hand the villain wanted me to have; you could say that he played me like a banjo.
What was wrong with my analysis, because it was clearly wrong?
Comments
Wow, villain just got super lucky you hit that flop square in the face.
His all in play was just mind bogglingly speculative, no sense really in it at all.
So IMO, there was nothing wrong in your call, or as you put it, your "analysis", as there was nothing to analyse.
However that hand was played after the flop, there was a very high chance all the money would have ended up in the middle anyway, it just so happened that the villain played it in the most non-sensical way to do so.
To be honest if you fold a set of 5s in this situation, you will NEVER play any hand.
What is it you wanted on the flop. The only hand that was beating you was KK but the way the betting went i dont think you could see that hand.
That player could have been making a move with a pair like 10s,Js,Qs or aces.
Unfortunatly you both hit a dream flop, just a bit of a cooler mate.
col
I think it wholly depends on the blind structure and you only have look at the number of double ups in 'The Open' every night in the first 5 minutes to see how frequent these plays are!
However, you can never fold and 'c'est la vie'!
Absolutely nothing you can do.
A remarkable play by the KK but, with 5 pf callers, I guess he thought that he might get a loose call from someone who thought that he was just a "nutter". If the board hadn't been rainbow, I might have done something similar. The chances of someone having a straight draw look pretty slim too.
I once played a game where three of us flopped a set and all of us got it in on the flop. I had the middle set and made runner, runner flush!
No one is folding here.
i would have been thinking he was one of those nutters who ALWAYS goes all-in first hand of a tourney to show hes the BIG BALLS at the table... and would have raised him my watch also!
nevermind mate it happens, he wont have the better of u in the long run
Your almost NEVER beat there, except this time.
Phil Ivey is calling here!
I think the thing is, depending on what game this occurs in - if its one of the lower buy in 'donkfests' as I've seen them called his play is actually a profitable one. There are a lot of players using this site that have watched too much tv/too many films and think every play is a bluff and will literally call anything (with anything!), so in terms of his ridiculous overbet I may be able to see where he's coming from. You were just unlucky
Ouch!
Villain was probably very inexperienced and went into OMG I GOT TEH NUTZ MUST BET ALLLLL MY CHIPZ TO WIN MORE....................
Or Villain may have been a thinker and took the chance that with 5 PF callers, there was a pretty good chance 1 or 2 were set mining with low pp's. With a 5 and 2 on board, he may have assessed it a good possibility that some one hit. So by shoving he's repping an Kx type hand and any one with a set is insta calling all day. As repton says, you see this play a lot in the early stages of low buyin MTTs and perhaps some of the better players are cashing in on this trait by making the 'bluffing with the nuts' play.
However.............. I think explanation one is the more likely.
FWIW...............I go busto here every time with 55
a) the nuts,
b) a dry board?
Crazy stuff and a good way to lose value from those monster hands. You have to call, of course, but he's basically never getting called there unless you have AK/55/22 - to narrow down the range of hands that's going to pay him off is... interesting.
Actuallly I think that the villians play widens the calling ranges of his opponents.
And mega lol at the people suggesting that he had polarised his opponents ranges to 55/22.
FWIW I think the the villians play isn't that bad, in certain tournies/vs certain opponents that bet will get called so light.
But the important thing to take from this hand is that never, ever, ever question a hand when you get it in with flopped 2nd nuts vs flopped nuts. Its so unlikely that you just need to such it up, say nh and move on.
Scotty,
How light do you think he's calling there then, just out of interest? Good to see we agree that we can't pass the second nuts at least
I think a lot depends on the tournie tho, for instance in a freeroll I wouldn't be surprised to see that bet called down by A-high...in a standard MTT tho the range does tighten but I dont think it tightens so much that the KKK is ONLY getting called by 555/222.
The 2BB raise and then the all-in on the flop disguises the top set; only someone seeing the cards can put down 555. I'd call the all-in till the cows come home/all day/any other same-meaning cliche.
Just a cold deck; sometimes 'stuff' happens. You dust off, add it to your list of poker stories, and go on to the next comp.
The villain played this badly and just got lucky that I hit my set. In one way this was a cold deck.
But next time, I would definitely fold. This was the first hand of a MTT and I am an accomplished MTT player. I know that doubling up early on makes about zero % difference to me winning the tourney or making the FT, whereas losing my stack is clearly catastrophic. As the cards fell, it was a clear call but in the context of the whole tournament, I should have folded - I would have beat the villain over the length of the tourney.
Thanks everyone.
Poker is a game of opinions (and several other things as well) but it is definitely NOT wrong to smooth call with 55 here.
There is generally very little point in re-raising with 55 to "find out where you are".
Depending on stack sizes you want to take a relatively cheap flop to hit your set. If the stack sizes are not big enough to make "set mining" worthwhile then you have to make a decision to shove or fold pre-flop. Obviously in this case, the stacks were large enough to make set mining a very viable choice.
By re-raising pre-flop, you MAY get someone off a better pair (e.g. 66, 77 or 88) but you are equally likely to get someone playing AK aggressively who will re-re-raise and hence give you no chance to take a cheap flop and hit your set. Losing to a flopped "set under set" is so rare that it should be discounted - certainly given the structure in any tournament on SkyPoker.
If he slow plays and just calls your re-raise, he might well hold AA, KK or AK so you're really none-the-wiser when the flop hits.
Still, "Chacun a son gout" as the French say.
tbf, however this hand plays out,(depending on turn and riva cards) you go broke, just one of those things.
Unfortunatley 4 you, you hit the perfect card. I call that bet all day and night! An d i win the pot 98% of the time.
You were just unlucky, and if villian continually plays the nuts like that, he is losing serious value!!!