How bad are PP Jacks?

Smudgesmit

4nl?
I seem to get stung a lot with these unless I can see a cheap flop.  Should I play these like 8s etc. I do okay with them in S&Gs but in 4nl I either cannot get paid or do my stack to AA, AK?

YOUNG_GUN

I usually raise same as aces-10 10, if higher card hits flop then i slow down if multiway

Jacks are 4th best starting hand, defo should be profiting in long term at 4nl with them, although had a go yesterday at 8 nl with them callled by KJ who hit straight for £4 ish was frustrating. 1hour 30mins session got sucked out 3 times which meant i broke even. should have been at least £16 up and before anyone says i did buy in full on all

Talon

 Pocket jacks are a very difficult hand to play at any level but especially at NL4. This is for 2 reasons.

 1) At NL4 preflop raises are usually called multiway with a wide variety of hands, like any A ,any K, connectors or 2 of the same suit.This makes it difficult to narrow the field down to any degree.

 2) The unfortunate thing about JJ is that unless you get the field narrowed down you are very likely to be outdrawn. There is a 50% chance of an overcard appearing on the flop and in a multiway pot this will almost certainly put you behind.

 You should always be raising preflop with JJ but you must be ready to lay it down when the board goes bad.On the  good side if you do set up then you will find yourself getting paid off by all sorts of raggy hands that people just cant lay down no matter what. Play these hands strong and good luck with them

DOHHHHHHH

Don't try to see a cheap flop with pocket jacks, get that idea out of your head.

Especially at 4nl, raise as much pre flop as you think people will call. 6/7/8/9/10xbb depending on the table.

If everyone is calling everything, don't raise 3xbb and have to play jacks against 5 callers - it's impossible.

GREGHOGG

I dont see why people have a such a problem with Jacks... everyone seems to hate them, but i dont have an issue with them and never have!

Its quite simple, play them strongly preflop, but if an overcard comes and there is action bin em. even at nl4 you are usually beat.

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: How bad are PP Jacks?:

I dont see why people have a such a problem with Jacks... everyone seems to hate them, but i dont have an issue with them and never have! Its quite simple, play them strongly preflop, but if an overcard comes and there is action bin em. even at nl4 you are usually beat.
Posted by GREGHOGG

I agree i love a pair of jacks

Smudgesmit

Okay, here's why I'm asking.  Both villians are loose maniacs.  They gone all-in pre (no matter what is in the pot) with everything from 22 to Q9 to K2 to QQ.  Sometimes they raise like this hand sometimes they shove to a 3X raise.
Waited over an hour for a decent hold hand to take them with and figured I would have to play both on the flop as they had seen every flop so far.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Smudgesmit	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.70
Wakey_S	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.93
	Your hole cards	J J
AYM666	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.35
XXXa	Raise		£0.08	£0.18	£5.84
XXXb	Call		£0.08	£0.26	£1.54
Smudgesmit	Raise		£0.30	£0.56	£4.40
Wakey_S	Fold
AYM666	Fold
XXXa	Raise		£0.64	£1.20	£5.20
XXXb	All-in		£1.54

So what's my move here.  This is their standard play most hands and they have been swapping the cash between each other every other hand.  Don't want to frighten 'a' off so should I flat call, raise, shove?

GREGHOGG

In this situation i would shove, if player A has been a loose maniac he might call with all sorts of junk. You wont "frighten him off" and even if he folds you have isolated the other fish so it might even be best to have player A out of the pot.

So get it in here based on your descriptions of the players. ("both villains are loose maniacs!"

Smudgesmit

Well I knew he would shove so I flat called (Don't all shout at me at once I will shove from now on!) Guess I just got caught on a caller : {

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Smudgesmit	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.70
Wakey_S	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.93
	Your hole cards	J J
AYM666	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.35
XXXa	Raise		£0.08	£0.18	£5.84
XXXb	Call		£0.08	£0.26	£1.54
Smudgesmit	Raise		£0.30	£0.56	£4.40
Wakey_S	Fold
AYM666	Fold
XXXa	Raise		£0.64	£1.20	£5.20
XXXb	All-in		£1.54	£2.74	£0.00
Smudgesmit	Call		£1.30	£4.04	£3.10
XXXa	All-in		£5.20	£9.24	£0.00
Smudgesmit	All-in		£3.10	£12.34	£0.00
XXXa	Unmatched bet		£1.20	£11.14	£1.20
Smudgesmit	Show	J J
XXXa	Show	A A
XXXb	Show	A K

YOUNG_GUN

if you knew he was shoving and call you might aswell just shove

Smudgesmit

In Response to Re: How bad are PP Jacks?:

if you knew he was shoving and call you might aswell just shove
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

I did say I knew the call to call was wrong!

I guess my main question here is: With the info I have on this two, is there anyway of getting of this hand or should I always play them this way (apart from the 1st call, this should be shove)

YOUNG_GUN

always shoving with ur read