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.25/.50 cash game hand....help?
Hi, I'm new to sky poker and the forum, but would appreciate any input on this hand, and also how to judge and deal with these types of instances.
Playing a 25/50p cash table (6 handed), have a stack of 60. Raise to £2 in 2nd position with JJ and recieve 2 callers. Flop comes 9 7 4 rainbow, a good one for me, and i bet out 4 quid into a 6.50 pot. One guy folds and the other calls me in position. Notes on the big blind are that he's a calling station, who will chase flushes, straights and even 2 pairs. It is only a matter of time until he donks off his money, but he has been hitting and has a stack of 54 quid having bought in for 25. The turn is a queen, which doesnt make any straights on board, but it is an overcard to my jacks. I now find myself out of position, against an unpredictable opponent who could be holding any 2, but i'm pretty sure that he has caught a pair on the flop, and is drawing to hit trips or 2 pair. I check, and he bets out 8 quid. Now what? I have no idea where i'm at, did he flop 2 pair? has he caught the queen? has he got ace king and called my flop bet to take it away on the turn with position?.How do you guys cope with situations like this. I have 2 jacks, a very strong hand on the flop, can I keep laying marginal hands down like this against a fishy player, waiting for the monster hand before i commit? As it was i felt that was my best bet of taking his stack, and didn't fancy facing another bet on the river so i layed it down. Instead of mucking, and keeping me frustrated and confused, he showed queen 4, which made him 2 pairs on the turn. Although I was greatful for the information, it didn't help my frustration levels.
Any suggestions as to where I went wrong in this hand? Bigger bet on the flop to take it down there and then? But surely I want players like this to chase 2 pair n trips, so was I just unlucky?
Any help much appreciated, Thanx, JJ
Playing a 25/50p cash table (6 handed), have a stack of 60. Raise to £2 in 2nd position with JJ and recieve 2 callers. Flop comes 9 7 4 rainbow, a good one for me, and i bet out 4 quid into a 6.50 pot. One guy folds and the other calls me in position. Notes on the big blind are that he's a calling station, who will chase flushes, straights and even 2 pairs. It is only a matter of time until he donks off his money, but he has been hitting and has a stack of 54 quid having bought in for 25. The turn is a queen, which doesnt make any straights on board, but it is an overcard to my jacks. I now find myself out of position, against an unpredictable opponent who could be holding any 2, but i'm pretty sure that he has caught a pair on the flop, and is drawing to hit trips or 2 pair. I check, and he bets out 8 quid. Now what? I have no idea where i'm at, did he flop 2 pair? has he caught the queen? has he got ace king and called my flop bet to take it away on the turn with position?.How do you guys cope with situations like this. I have 2 jacks, a very strong hand on the flop, can I keep laying marginal hands down like this against a fishy player, waiting for the monster hand before i commit? As it was i felt that was my best bet of taking his stack, and didn't fancy facing another bet on the river so i layed it down. Instead of mucking, and keeping me frustrated and confused, he showed queen 4, which made him 2 pairs on the turn. Although I was greatful for the information, it didn't help my frustration levels.
Any suggestions as to where I went wrong in this hand? Bigger bet on the flop to take it down there and then? But surely I want players like this to chase 2 pair n trips, so was I just unlucky?
Any help much appreciated, Thanx, JJ
Comments
Pre-flop and flop are fine IMO. I think you should still bet the turn. If we're being results orientated then betting the turn is obviously super bad because we're drawing super thin here and are probably getting raised which leaves in a relaly tricky spot. But forgetting that, he can have a straight draw here so often that we need to bet to get more value out of him. How many hands are there that he could have here that is drawing to a straight? T8, 86, and 56 are the big draws, and if he's as bad a calling station as you imply then he's certainly capable of wanting to see the river with all the gutshots, JT, 85, 63 and 53. He's going to show up with these hands much more often than any 1 pair hand on the flop thats made 2 pair by the turn.
Infact, I still like betting the turn even if we are scared of villain making 2 pair, because having checked to him you admitted that you didn't know where you were at. When we lead into him again on the turn he has to raise with 2 pair unless he is super bad, and then we can be pretty certain that we're beat and we can give the hand up.
Once we check we have to fold IMO, because we can only beat a bluff. We're never facing a bet on the turn from a hand that we were ahead of on the flop, because they can never like the Q since AQ makes up a part of your range there.
On this occasion you played the hand very well and didn't put any money into the pot when you were behind, which is fantastic. However, in the long run, I feel we're facing a draw or a T9 type of hand far too often to check and possibly give up value.
I would agree totally with Youngun, possible the only time you would check on the turn is if you have a monster and thought that if you bet then our villain would fold.
You left yourself in no-mans land with you check. There is a simple rule, don't be frightened to ask the question, but listen to the answer. yes you were thin this time, and he would have called, but if you bet you have two ways to win, the better hand or he folds.
Thanx guys for ur replies, didnt really expect anyone to look twice so much appreciated. lol. If i bet out, and he flat calls again, which im sure he wud do if he has a straight draw, maybe not drawing to 2 pair or trips, im in the same situation again on the river, and if my hand doesnt improve, i hate calling off n trusting my origional read, when to be honest im playing an unreadable player in an online situation. For example if i bet 80% of the pot on the turn and get a call, I hate so many river cards, and cud already be behind as its still very possible he cud have flopped a set. I'm just so confused in this situation, im terrible out of position, i wonder if theres any genral tips for playing marginal hands out of position? I've been playing cash games at levels ranging from 15/25 to .50/1.00 for about 4 years, and make a steady profit, but I cant help feeling im missing a trick somehwere to maximise profit.
Again very happy that uve taken the time to reply, look forward to using the forum alot more in the future and hopefully playing a few of you. Cheers, JJ
Nice stuff DOHHHHH.
I don't think you did much wrong at all.
In fact, when I R with J-J, if I could get foilks to Call with Q-4, I'd take that all day. These are the Oppos you want in a hand.
More of the same, & YBA.
see how polite i was? haha
you say he calls down really really light, then c/f a blank (yes it is a blank, Q9, Q7 and Q4 are microscopic parts of a very wide range) turn.
Bet this like 4/5 pot then c/c, or bet like 3/4 pot on the river.
Value town players like these all day