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losses

edited January 2011 in Poker Chat
only been playing cash properly for 5 wks now, although playing mtts for 3ys.started my cash quest with a bang and first 2 wks made a  healthy profit nearly doubling br. had a blip on week 3 by playing too high too quick ( and drunk). decent wk4 back in profit again. this week mind has been bad. lost 5 bi in 2 days whilst playing on 2 tables. is this normal or should alarm bells be ringing after losing that many bis in a row. natural varience or game changed. if anything i think i have tightened up on my starting hands but not playing them strong enough post flop. any advice most welcome   phil
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Comments

  • edited January 2011
    swings happen.


    big swings happen when you play bad or suffer severe variance.

    post hands in the clinic, think about every pot you play.
  • edited January 2011
    Doesnt sound anything out of the ordinary to me.play sober if that helps and NEVER be afraid to move down levels xxx
  • edited January 2011
    trying to get hands up now beaneh, not just bad, but some good as a selecton is required im sure. deb, have no worries going down, dont need to (yet) just getting a few seeds of doubt x
  • edited January 2011

     Not sure what levels you play at Phil but if playing at micros I would offer this advice. 
     
     1, Position is key.
     2, Try to avoid limping as you will end up with 4 or 5 players post flop.
     3, Bet out when you hit.
     4, Lot of players at these levels will chase draws so keep betting.
     5, Majority of players at this level will not bluff on the river so be aware of all river bets unless you are very strong.
     6, Try to play small ball, its better to win £1 in a pot than lose £10 by being greedy. This is probabaly the biggest lesson I have learnt.

     5 buy ins is quite a lot in my opinion and I would look at where you are losing big pots.

     Good luck
  • edited January 2011
    In Response to Re: losses:
    trying to get hands up now beaneh, not just bad, but some good as a selecton is required im sure. deb, have no worries going down, dont need to (yet) just getting a few seeds of doubt x
    Posted by pod1
    five buy ins in two dsys is very frequent occurence imo,    been on site since it opened and have had some realy dreadfull bad runs,   sometimes lasting more than two weeks,    belief in your game is needed and review your game over a much longer period      say six weeks


    peter
  • edited January 2011

    Without downswings, there would be no profit in poker.  If you are a winning player, and are on a downswing, you are more than likely getting it in good and being outdrawn.  If the fish never binked hands, they would soon give up and stop playing, leaving you up against more competent opponents.  Thats what I keep tellin meself anyway.
    Send freechips1 a pm, he had a brutal downswing a few months back that makes yours look insignificant.  5bi`s still hurts me tho.

  • edited January 2011
    hi again trebour, floating between nl 20/ 50. won well on 50 to start with , couldnt win at 20, then swung the other way. left 40/ 50 alone last 2 weeks(apart from 1 night, but we wont talk about that!!). just playing 2 tables nl20. winning a higher % of hands than losing, just the big hands i am getting done on. to be fair its 2/3 people doing it, either better players( quite possible lol) or got a good read on me(very possible). gonna give it a couple of days not playin cash, look over my hand history ( when it stops telling me im timed out) and go at it again leaving those players on other tables.    tnxs omahonyo, will do if it gets worse   phil
  • edited January 2011
    am i the only person who thinks a good downswing is a month and a bad downswing is 5 months,im on a 2 week one atm so im quite happy :)
  • edited January 2011
    Hi thanks for putting my name forward mahoney, i owe you one.
    -5 buyin is great, i wish i only had -5 buyin sessions.  Must be over 6 months ago now and i had a major downswing />35 buyins.
    I have just had a few days off as last time i played i had a horrid session @30 and 40nl, -9 buyin in about 4/5 hours, i have just spent half hour trying to get up some HH to show you but it dont work, AGAIN.
    During this horrid few hours i had AA cracked soooo many times (4 times by QQ, Q on the river 3 times i think) and loads of other runner runner straights, backdoor flush and a few coolers (set vs set and 2nd nut flush vs nut flush)
    -5 buyin is nothing to worry about, "keep getting your money in good and you will show a profit" well thats what i keep saying to myself.
  • edited January 2011
    freechips, your a gent. not many would put those type of figures up for all and sundry. i can see why dohhhh is such a br nit, mine wouldnt take that type of hammering, not even close. like i said not classing it as a major problem, but was just getting concerned.  90% of big losses have come from getting money in good so that isnt a problem, just feel i aint making enough out of the  hands i am winning if that makes sense.   phil
  • edited January 2011
    the 20 buyin bankroll rule is no use anymore.  When i started playing poker the fish would c/call (calling stations) but now the fish reraise making poker harder (tougher dessions) and variance is much higher than it was.  The fish would c/call with 2nd pair and if they hit 2 pair or trips they would reraise so you can get away from your tptk or over pair (playing there hand face up) now they reraise with underpairs, draws, 2nd pair and also bluff making it much tougher.
    The standard of play and aggression has gone up massivly over the past 2 years, making poker very high variance.
    I am wondering what it will be like in another 2 years time? will the edge winning players have be so small that only rakeback pros will win?
  • edited January 2011
    i have just bought myself two new carp rods and a new set of irons maybe its time to take up these 2 hobbies again. even a fat geezer won 200k chucking 3 bits of tungsten yesterday. must be easier ways to make money these days!!!
  • edited January 2011
    In Response to losses:
    only been playing cash properly for 5 wks now, although playing mtts for 3ys.started my cash quest with a bang and first 2 wks made a  healthy profit nearly doubling br. had a blip on week 3 by playing too high too quick ( and drunk). decent wk4 back in profit again. this week mind has been bad. lost 5 bi in 2 days whilst playing on 2 tables. is this normal or should alarm bells be ringing after losing that many bis in a row. natural varience or game changed. if anything i think i have tightened up on my starting hands but not playing them strong enough post flop. any advice most welcome   phil
    Posted by pod1
    Last night I lost 4 buy ins in 15 minutes at 30nl over 4 tables. 

    It was like a procession, just constantly bashing the "reload max" button. It ain't much fun, but it's gonna happen.

    Took another 2 n half hours playing the same 4 tables, to eventually end just -1.5 buy ins. 

    Not fun, but it's gonna happen (if it keeps happening, you/I may have a problem !!)
  • edited January 2011
    thanks mate, back to the grind stone friday!! ( live game 2morrow)
  • edited January 2011

    after looking at my down swings I am pretty sure its my lack of ability to hit the fold button when I know I am beat, you get a bit of a good run and your confidence grows and maybe this effects your folding ..... IMO and most likely I am talking pooh but when I am running hot folds seems easier.

  • ybyb
    edited January 2011
    I agree with freechips, I think to be profitable at cash in the long run you need to have a minimum of 50 buy-ins (and ideally much more).
  • edited January 2011
    admittedly I play at the micros where there are alot of gamblers but 5 buy ins is not that bad.
    having my second "long" downturn at the moment - currently about a month. I think my roll is down about a quarter now. But last autumn my roll was up 50% in about 2 weeks! and I don't think I'm doing anything different.
    the swings do seem to be getting bigger but i've only been playing for about a year and a half.
    if you are getting it in good then that's all you can do, but don't forget there is a fold button no matter how hard it is to use it - which has been my mistake

    if you need to, take a break or play a tournie/sit & go

    GL m8
  • edited January 2011
    In Response to Re: losses:
    i have just bought myself two new carp rods and a new set of irons maybe its time to take up these 2 hobbies again. even a fat geezer won 200k chucking 3 bits of tungsten yesterday. must be easier ways to make money these days!!!
    Posted by pod1
    Carp fishing ftw m8
  • edited January 2011
    Alright Pod

    you mentioned it might be the same 2 or 3 ppl who have reads on you or just better players

    Whats your table selection like?   sometimes if i can,t find a decent table (players i have reads on or just weaker plaeyrs) i won,t play at all or maybe play some DYM,s , but generally aim for the easier games/tables

    if I am up against better players and they are constantly beating me i would just sit out and spend half an hour watching them. i know its boring but a good way to pick up how they play and one final thing would be to mix it up a bit - its an underestimated advantage in my opinion to be unpredictable

    GL
  • edited January 2011
    This thread has jinxed me.  I did 5 buyins yesterday :-(
  • edited January 2011
    sorry to here mate, you could have chucked them this way mind, how incosiderate!!!!!
  • edited January 2011
    had it same last couple days did about 12 buyins at 50nl, seemed every pocket pair i was against hit their sets, flush draws and str8 draws were all getting there. aces lost to underpairs regular. also did a few buyins with tilt calls but its hard to fold set under set tbf. just leave for the day/night is what i did, come back today with clear head and won a few buy ins back and im playing well. just stick at it but 5 buy ins is a very little swing imo (as long as your rolled for the level obv) gl.
  • edited January 2011
    I'm glad you put this thread up Phil. It's made me feel better about my own current downswing. I've done about 7 buy ins over the past few days & I know it's affected my play at times (see my KK hand in the clinic) but like yourself I am getting it in good the vast majority of the time (except last night when I thought it would be a good idea to get it all in on the flop with JJ on a 10 high board only to be up against AA!).

    As someone else mentioned though, I've learned that table selection is important too. There ain't too many players that I look to avoid at NL20 but if I see one of those few names on the tables I try to stay away (invariably they end up joining my table anyway though!)
  • edited January 2011
    theyoungy Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.85
    Time_Bomb Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £9.14
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
         
    Petrachek1 Raise  £0.40 £0.55 £23.94
    PAWS4ME Raise  £0.70 £1.25 £8.05
    pod1 Call  £0.70 £1.95 £15.82
    KELLY1954 Call  £0.70 £2.65 £0.86
    theyoungy Fold     
    Time_Bomb Fold     
    Petrachek1 Call  £0.30 £2.95 £23.64
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • 3
    • 6
         
    Petrachek1 Check     
    PAWS4ME All-in  £8.05 £11.00 £0.00
    pod1 Call  £8.05 £19.05 £7.77
    KELLY1954 Fold     
    Petrachek1 Fold     
    PAWS4ME Show
    • 6
    • 6
       
    pod1 Show
    • A
    • Q
       
    Turn
       
    • 3
         
    River
       
    • 9
         
    PAWS4ME Win Full House, 6s and 3s £17.65
  • edited January 2011
    Petrachek1 Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £24.61
    dolphins72 Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £20.04
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • A
         
    pod1 Raise  £0.40 £0.55 £16.23
    punxxs_13 Fold     
    theyoungy Fold     
    Time_Bomb Call  £0.40 £0.95 £9.27
    Petrachek1 Fold     
    dolphins72 Fold     
    Flop
       
    • 9
    • 2
    • 4
         
    pod1 Bet  £0.71 £1.66 £15.52
    Time_Bomb Call  £0.71 £2.37 £8.56
    Turn
       
    • 8
         
    pod1 Bet  £2.37 £4.74 £13.15
    Time_Bomb Call  £2.37 £7.11 £6.19
    River
       
    • K
         
    pod1 Check     
    Time_Bomb Bet  £3.60 £10.71 £2.59
    pod1 Call  £3.60 £14.31 £9.55
    Time_Bomb Show
    • Q
    • A
       
    pod1 Muck
    • A
    • A
       
    Time_Bomb Win Flush to the Ace £13.23
  • edited January 2011
    theyoungy Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.56
    Time_Bomb Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £15.44
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
         
    Petrachek1 Call  £0.10 £0.25 £24.51
    dolphins72 Call  £0.10 £0.35 £19.89
    pod1 Raise  £0.50 £0.85 £9.37
    punxxs_13 Fold     
    theyoungy Fold     
    Time_Bomb Call  £0.40 £1.25 £15.04
    Petrachek1 Fold     
    dolphins72 Fold     
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • 7
    • J
         
    Time_Bomb Bet  £0.40 £1.65 £14.64
    pod1 Raise  £2.45 £4.10 £6.92
    Time_Bomb Raise  £4.10 £8.20 £10.54
    pod1 All-in  £6.92 £15.12 £0.00
    Time_Bomb Raise  £9.74 £24.86 £0.80
    Time_Bomb Unmatched bet  £4.87 £19.99 £5.67
    Time_Bomb Show
    • 7
    • 7
       
    pod1 Show
    • K
    • K
       
    Turn
       
    • 4
         
    River
       
    • 2
         
    Time_Bomb Win Three 7s £18.59
  • edited January 2011
    see you all monday, 18 holes on sat and pike fishing on sunday!!!first 20 mins of comming back rested and refreshed. cant play a good hand well and cant see when they are taking me roughly from behind "dry". the game we love to hate, and hate to love is leaving me a tad "sore" at the moment
  • edited January 2011
    with that AA hands vs AQcc you should be shoving the river yourself imo


    ive recently had ~60buyin downswing over a 6week period, id say honestly 50:50 between running like stephen hawkings, and the rest tilt/spew.

    taking a few days off is a good idea and be prepared to move down as your BR shrinks. i wasnt and pretty much crippled my BR and am now back at nl50 instead of 70+ bi's for nl200 that i was before the huge swing. it sucks but if you get through it will almost certainly make you a better player. after all if you never lose then you wouldnt look back at how you play and improve
  • edited January 2011
    it was a check with a re raise after! . thats one hell of a down swing lol, and i hope it dont get that bad!! have played you a few times and you have got a really good game, random one minute solid the next ( i think you still owe me about £ 60 !!!) it isnt the money all though i does help its the 2nd guessing your own play that really bugs me. golf and fishing will help and then see what happens   phil
  • edited January 2011
    its moved across to pacmanpac Small blind  15.00 15.00 1277.50 TAEFMAN Big blind  30.00 45.00 2372.50   Your hole cards A Q       arc2arc Fold     silentbob Fold     pod1 Raise  90.00 135.00 1245.00 PACE Fold     pacmanpac Call  75.00 210.00 1202.50 TAEFMAN Call  60.00 270.00 2312.50 Flop    A 10 2       pacmanpac Bet  202.50 472.50 1000.00 TAEFMAN Fold     pod1 All-in  1245.00 1717.50 0.00 pacmanpac All-in  1000.00 2717.50 0.00 pod1 Unmatched bet  42.50 2675.00 42.50 pacmanpac Show 6 A    pod1 Show A Q    Turn    6       River    2       pacmanpac Win Two Pairs, Aces and 6s 2675.00 mtts now!! anyone for russian roulette!!
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