Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot.

unknown_username

Hi Peeps.
This is a hand from a £55 Hu Game - I was facing Pocket Jacks against strong oppo, I didn't want to shove all-in pre flop as I would only be a slight favourite.

Pre-flop I thought this is a good spot to get all oppos chips in play and as long as the flop was good my hand was strong, then I faced this flop and struggled to make the right play.

Do I Call?
Do I Shove?
Do I Fold?
Quick the little green timers going down - What Next?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
POKERTREV	Small blind		10.00	10.00	1460.00
Oppo	Big blind		20.00	30.00	1510.00
	Your hole cards	J J
POKERTREV	Raise		90.00	120.00	1370.00
Oppo	Raise		320.00	440.00	1190.00
POKERTREV	Call		240.00	680.00	1130.00
Flop
		4 6 10
Oppo	Bet		320.00

N1CK

shove, and shove pre too

DOHHHHHHH

If the little green timer gets further than 1/4 of the way down, I think you're approaching slow roll territory.

YOUNG_GUN

Pre shove, shove flop imo

scotty77

don't mind a flat pre actually considering blinds are so low

obv flop is an ez shove

N1CK

cant see any reason to flat that size 3 bet just get it in pf

beaneh

In Response to Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot.:

Hi Peeps. This is a hand from a £55 Hu Game - I was facing Pocket Jacks against strong oppo, I didn't want to shove all-in pre flop as I would only be a slight favourite. Pre-flop I thought this is a good spot to get all oppos chips in play and as long as the flop was good my hand was strong, then I faced this flop and struggled to make the right play. Do I Call? Do I Shove? Do I Fold? Quick the little green timers going down - What Next? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance POKERTREV Small blind   10.00 10.00 1460.00 Oppo  Big blind   20.00 30.00 1510.00   Your hole cards J J       POKERTREV Raise   90.00 120.00 1370.00 Oppo  Raise   320.00 440.00 1190.00 POKERTREV Call   240.00 680.00 1130.00 Flop     4 6 10       Oppo  Bet   320.00
Posted by POKERTREV

Sir, what was your opponent like?

How many times had he 3 bet?

Had you 4 bet?

'as long as the flop was good' ......

is Txx sss when we have a spade a bad flop? was AKQ r better for us? what were you looking for? what flops would you fold etc etc.

This flop is a super fist pump laugh a bit to yourself jam it in his eye. similarly with the size of his 3 bet and if it wasn't the first one all game i'd jam it in his eye pre.

GREGHOGG

Trev you worry too much.

I know its £55 but, that makes no difference. It all has to go in there that is the dream flop for JJ.

That is a monster hand HU.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot.:

In Response to Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot. : Sir, what was your opponent like? How many times had he 3 bet? Had you 4 bet? 'as long as the flop was good' ...... is Txx sss when we have a spade a bad flop? was AKQ r better for us? what were you looking for? what flops would you fold etc etc. This flop is a super fist pump laugh a bit to yourself jam it in his eye. similarly with the size of his 3 bet and if it wasn't the first one all game i'd jam it in his eye pre.
Posted by beaneh

Hi Beany.
This is very early on in HU so the only real information I have on this player is from his stats - Showing a very good profit in sit & goes and winning 7 of last 10 HU at this level.

First couple of hands he raises I fold, next couple of hands I raise he folds and then this one.

As far as the flop goes, its almost what I was looking for but wasn't overly keen on the 3 spades

My thinking: (or what was going through my brain at the time)
If the flop comes Axx or Kxx or 2 overs i'm folding to a 3 bet.
I was mentally unprepaired for the 3 spades on the flop and his C bet post flop. I just kept looking at it thinking - "why has he C bet", "is he trying to push me off a low flop", "should I jam", "does he have a flush draw with As or Ks", "is he sat with a bigger pocket pair" even though in the back of my mind I was telling myself, all these scenarios HU are very unlikely.

So - After rattling all the empty spaces in my brain, I decided to Jam it all In and keep my fingers crossed.

Regardless of the result (Which I will post shortly) Was I Right?

Edit* My Next point has been deleted as i'm such a muppet, and goodylad has showed me the error of my ways lol 

goodylad21

Trev "shove pre flop" they mean jam it AFTER the 3 bet !!

YOUNG_GUN

By shove pre we mean after they re-raise you obvioulsy trevor!!!

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot.:

Trev "shove pre flop" they mean jam it AFTER the 3 bet !!
Posted by goodylad21

Ahhhh - Thanks for pointing thats out goodylad, I missunderstood that. 

beaneh

Hello Mr Trev.

You say he's won 7 of the last 10, how do you know that? Sharckcope? You'd do better off looking at long term results as opposed to some short term results which are heavily reliant on variance.

What exactly do you not like about flopping 3 spades with a higher spade in your hand heads up in a 3 bet pot?!

What flops were you looking for? JJx?

A preflop '3bet' is  so called because the big blind is the '1st bet', the open raise is the '2nd bet' and the re-raise is the '3rd bet'. To 3 bet a flop, you would need the action to go bet, raise, reraise. (again it's the 3rd time a bet goes in).

How many of the bad he has us crushed scenarios are there? How many times does he have singular higher spades and what equity do we have?

It's most definitely correct to jam over this flop bet,  yes we may run into AA no spade, and are behind but we have good equity.

preflop  can be a shove, you'd be risking 1130 to win 440 but you wouldn't have to worry about making a mistake when an overcard falls and you incorrectly fold which can be very costly in a sng. You should be more likely to call if you have a read on y our opponent and think he is more than capable of putting more chips in with a worse value hand or as a bluff.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Heads Up - Sticky Flop Spot.:

Hello Mr Trev. You say he's won 7 of the last 10, how do you know that? Sharckcope? You'd do better off looking at long term results as opposed to some short term results which are heavily reliant on variance. What exactly do you not like about flopping 3 spades with a higher spade in your hand heads up in a 3 bet pot?! What flops were you looking for? JJx? A preflop '3bet' is  so called because the big blind is the '1st bet', the open raise is the '2nd bet' and the re-raise is the '3rd bet'. To 3 bet a flop, you would need the action to go bet, raise, reraise. (again it's the 3rd time a bet goes in). How many of the bad he has us crushed scenarios are there? How many times does he have singular higher spades and what equity do we have? It's most definitely correct to jam over this flop bet,  yes we may run into AA no spade, and are behind but we have good equity. preflop  can be a shove, you'd be risking 1130 to win 440 but you wouldn't have to worry about making a mistake when an overcard falls and you incorrectly fold which can be very costly in a sng. You should be more likely to call if you have a read on y our opponent and think he is more than capable of putting more chips in with a worse value hand or as a bluff.
Posted by beaneh

Hi Beaneh
I didn't want to get into his stats too much, 7 from 10 was just an example of recent activity, but long term this player shows 4.5k profit in s&gs, so i'm thinking he's more than capable of out playing me more often than not.

Not too sure exactly what I didnt like about the flop apart from the fact that it made me think he might be sitting with As or Ks and if a spade drops, i'm getting outdrawn. This kind of thought process keeps creeping into my game and i'm struggling to make the right play.

I will be totally honest and say that more often than not, I would have folded in this position and yet I know it's wrong, but hopfully if I keep posting in the clinic and you guys keep re-enforcing the correct play, it will eventually sink in and become second nature to my game.

Anyway, many thanks to you and everyone else for all the help.

I will post the full hand up in a mo. 

unknown_username

Here is the rest of the hand.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
POKERTREV	Small blind		10.00	10.00	1460.00
Oppo	Big blind		20.00	30.00	1510.00
	Your hole cards	J J
POKERTREV	Raise		90.00	120.00	1370.00
Oppo	Raise		320.00	440.00	1190.00
POKERTREV	Call		240.00	680.00	1130.00
Flop
		4 6 10
Oppo	Bet		320.00	1000.00	870.00
POKERTREV	Call		320.00	1320.00	810.00
Turn
		3
Oppo	All-in		870.00	2190.00	0.00
POKERTREV	All-in		810.00	3000.00	0.00
Oppo	Unmatched bet		60.00	2940.00	60.00
POKERTREV	Show	J J
Oppo	Show	K K
River
		8
Oppo	Win	Pair of Kings	2940.00

Not the result I was looking for and I can now see I played it very badly and probably deserved to lose it.

I agree that jamming it in Pre-Flop to the 3 bet would have been best play here and at the very least I should have shoved on the flop.

Thanks again peeps for all the comments

rawhand

Yo Bro
I would 100% shove all in heads up with JJ if he has a bigger hand then thats unlucky. With his raise i would have put him on AK no Ace on flop so im still shoving. if agin he has a bigger hand then thats poker.

EDIT Oh I see he did unlucky

Dudeskin8

Unlucky mate, move on.

beaneh

At least you didn't call flop fold turn!