Can You Fold Pocket Kings??

BAZZA121

Hand number 328521507
Just a low stakes BH MTT, Think just top 6 were paid in money. 9 players left, 5 on other table, 4 on mine. I'm well over average in chips(bout 12k) and sat in 3rd place, Villian in 2nd place with approx 12.5k in chips. Villian been on same table for a while with bout average stack and been playing solid tight poker. Once chipped up been raising in position and using his chip stack, just as i had been doing. Once in gets down to 4 players on table, i had been raising 90% time on button any 2 cards. Villian is always in BB. He had been raising my BB in similar way. Both had occassionally 3 bet to defend blind getting opponent to fold on the button.
Hand plays out as follows -

Think the blinds were 150/300 (but not sure)
All pre-flop
Person A - fold
Me - King/King (button) raise 3x
Person B (SB) - fold
Villian (BB) - 3 Bet
Me - 4 Bet (think committing now bout 45% of my stack - saying i'm not folding)
Villian - All in
Me - Call

Question is, so close to the bubble, should you ever fold once commiting 45% of stack, Still 6k left enough to scrape in money or once the 4 bet are you fully committed?

Hand played out sick but not the point, should you preserve your tournie life or just full out go for the win?

  

waynec

If ur not going to play KK u may as well hit sit out button and hope you hit the money before ur blinded out IMO

LOL_RAISE

instead of 4betting to half your stack just shoves.

GaryQQQ

No, I can't.

With 30 (ish) big blinds in a tournament you should never be folding KK preflop under any circumstances (the only exception is in a satellite, which is a special case). The 4-bet should be a shove. If the villain turns over AA or you get outdrawn then so be it, that's poker. All the profit in MTTs is in winning, you must play to win, playing to min cash is a losing strategy. People who are good at min cashing but never win will find DYMs more profitable. You absolutely have to go for it in situations like this, even if we're 1 elimination from the bubble and there are several short stacks on fumes I'm still 100% always all-in here.

tapeworm

I Agree 100% with Gary here - I dont play alot of tourneys and only play small stakes, but i do know that if you are playing a tourney you are playing to win rather than cash - you are 4 bet shoving here all day long. If you bubble out - so be it. id rather that than wonder "what if" when i go out min cashing after.

walesboy

i am not that experienced on tournies, but i'm probably raising bigger pre - 5 or 6BB, then shoving if villian 3 bets. no way folding kings pre flop. a larger initial raise may make him just call if your usual raise is 3BB and enable you to fold if flop is dangerous.

tapeworm

In Response to Re: Can You Fold Pocket Kings??:

i am not that experienced on tournies, but i'm probably raising bigger pre - 5 or 6BB, then shoving if villian 3 bets. no way folding kings pre flop. a larger initial raise may make him just call if your usual raise is 3BB and enable you to fold if flop is dangerous.
Posted by walesboy

If we are this close to the bubble and only 4 handed a 3x BB bet is a largish raise - people can min raise or 2.5 here and take the blinds (with a sensible table) - he wants a caller after all

walesboy

In Response to Re: Can You Fold Pocket Kings??:

In Response to Re: Can You Fold Pocket Kings?? : If we are this close to the bubble and only 4 handed a 3x BB bet is a largish raise - people can min raise or 2.5 here and take the blinds (with a sensible table) - he wants a caller after all
Posted by tapeworm

true, risk reward thing. there has been  3 betting to defend blinds. a bigger initial raise may kill the hand or maybe not.

BAZZA121

Don't think i am ever folding anyway, but just thought afterwards should i had of! the shove instead of the 4 bet sounds like a better idea. Thanks for you response guys!!!
Just so you know Villian had AKo.
flop -959
turn -9
river -9
his ace kicker plays

Sick i Know but hey thats Poker!!!

DeucesLive

you're best off bubbling 9 and winning one than mincashing 5 and bubbling 5. That's the reality of tournament poker.

In dyms and satellites- I could fold KK (well, definitely in a satellite, dyms are stack dependent). In a tournament, unless it's the world series and I can comfortably mincash, which would make a MASSIVE difference to me- I'd never ever fold.

If the mincash is big enough to make a real difference to you, I'd say you can fold them- but fold before investing anything. Focus on folding to the bubble and then you're happy. If the mincash isn't so important, play for the win and get super aggro around the bubble, every time. Probably with a bit less than kings, too. ^^

FlashFlush

KK is foldable pre, but only if you are sat very deep and on a table of players you know are very tight. Iv done it once before in a deepstack, I was about 300 blinds deep, Player A raised, I 3bet which was the followed by player C 4 betting and player D 5 betting. All of which were solid reg players and no way is player D going in there without AA.

In your example, near the money and 30 blinds deep you are never folding.