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Are DYM's the new Russian Roulette?
It's widely acknowledged that the optimum play in a DYM game is to play uber tight in the first few levels (pretty much only premium hands) & widen up & target the middle stacks as the blinds get bigger.
The problem with this strategy is that sooner or later everyone cottons on to it & does it themselves. More & more now I find myself in a situation where we're on the bubble (& in some cases still 5 handed!) & nearly everyone has only 6-7 blinds. This inevitably leads to a blind steal shove followed by an insta call cos you just happen to run into a big hand at the wrong time.
So what does everyone think? Have DYM games ultimately become slightly more elaborate Russian roulette games or am I just running like death at the moment?
Discuss
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I'm inclined to think the last option, because more and more I'm getting donked out by horror calls (like the omaha lulz players who think QQ36 rainbow is a nut hand worth calling off 2500 chips with) or the trademark A rag allin callers in holdem, who bust kings for fun. That's in addition to coming up against monsters with the standard 56s shoves etc, which you can't really do much about.
I'm sure it'll turn, but in a game which needs such a strong win rate (I think it's 56% or more just to break even?) it doesn't take long to wipe out profits. I'm holding faith with my strategy, but the days of people just busting out before you need to play a hand seem to be disappearing- I remember being able to literally sit out of dyms and you cash before the blinds hit 50/100, lol
As its been discussed on here a lot and its not as new as it once was more ppl will cotton on to what used to be a pretty solid way of winning
I,d say its a bit like Omaha - The standard is growing on that since it became more popular, but as shanxta said you have to try to adaapt or find something else you think you have a better chance on
Wish I could go back to when DYM,s first came out
Learn to mix up your game like shanxta said.
dyms are nothing like RR's
They have an interesting dynamic and there is more to them than meets the eye. take advantage of weak, passive players.
Shove first, punish limpers, and get your money in ahead as often as possible.
FYI I actually joined a £1 STT the other day meaning to do a RR, I nearly slit my wrists!! zzzzzz
I hadn't even been that aggro in this one yet, so it wasn't an image thing. But it does make dyms a lot, lot harder than they used to be now to make a profit.
I tend to let them limp a couple times before I start shoving to see how they respond though, and if I'm really lucky see what hands they turn up.
Especially when they limp in the SB. Easy shove back!
Limp folders are people i make notes on and look out for. punishing them by shoving with a wide range is an easy way to maintain/build chip stack when the blinds are getting high.
Also limp, stealers. they Limp on c/o or button and then if you check in bb, they min bet the flop. Its amazing how often a reraise on the flop takes them off it!
There is alot more skill in dyms than people realise! And that 55/ Q10 is standardo. You got it in ahead, whats the problem?
I am mainly talking about £5.50 dyms here.
Getting it in ahead is not enough in a dym, not even close. You don't want to get it in, AT ALL in a dym- and once it's in, it doesn't really matter much whether you're ahead or not- sure, it's a bonus if you are, but realistically you never want to see a call unless you're holding aces.
If you get called allin when you're a 55% favourite, it's a losing scenario- EVERY TIME. Unless you're always getting it in 60% or more favourite (almost impossible) you're going to be losing money.
Of course there's skill in dyms, there's skill in all poker- but nowadays it's far harder to win regularly, and luck of the cards is playing a much bigger part. All the 'standard' shoves in the world aren't going to help if you get donk calls that leave you only a 55/60% favourite, or sometimes worse if you shove with say 56s and get called by J10- again, happens a lot. It's terrible dym play on their part, but their bad play doesn't reward you, unlike in tournament poker where those are the calls you WANT to see.
If you have notes on every dym player that tells you how good they are, you can tailor your game to it- good players will fold most hands, and donk players will normally eliminate themselves. But you can't have notes on everyone, new players turn up all the time and by the time you figure out whether they're decent or donks, it's often too late and your session profit gets wiped out. Only takes a little run of cards against you.
The more loose calls you get over time, combined with the abilty to find the right spots to pick up the dead money, the more chance you win over time! Obviously, in many situations folds are better but if they call, i really couldnt care less! I made the move first!
I am afraid i do not see your logic m8. I want them to make bad calls! You cant often win dyms without getting your money in these days, its just the way it is, but if you make the right squeeze plays, combined with getting called by the worst hand, you will win over time.
It sounds like you want a table of 5 other people who respect all of your raises and fold like clockwork and you never want to be called unless you have AA! This will never happen. Dyms arent supposed to be easy!
Of course you're not going to get a clockwork table of everyone folding- the point is, you used to be able to get through dyms without playing a hand most of the time, meaning as long as you play good, solid poker in the times you don't, your win rate would be massive. Now, you have to battle for basically every dym (I'm talking 5.50 too) which means winning a race or two in almost every one. Given the win % needed for dyms to break even is above 50%, it doesn't take much math to realise you need to be in as a very, very dominant favourite most of the time.
Over time, I'm sure dyms are still profitable- what I'm saying is, it's very easy to have big losing streaks in them now over the short term, and take a long time to see a profit regardless of how good your dym play is, because there are very few cheap and easy wins now. If every player won 50% of their games, sky are the only winners.
Much like roulettes.
What can you do lol.
Hand History #330855619 (17:22 17/01/2011)
Dyms are getting tougher yes. So adapt your play, steal a bit in the mid stages, play poker! Making a return at dyms takes time, and patience, and short term losing runs are common. I lost 7 in a row the other day. I then won 10 in a row. So thats profit. 10/17. Not bad.
so yea hf with variance
Agree the odd losing streak is inevitable, but tend to think there is steady money to be made on DYMs if you don't get drawn into big pots early
DYMS for dough, tourneys for show!