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Call or fold to 4 & 5 bet all ins?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
silentbob Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £4.85
howie09 Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £7.04
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
Ferg_LFC Fold     
JayPeeH Call  £0.10 £0.25 £4.31
barney_147 Raise  £0.40 £0.65 £4.31
Jambo81 Fold     
silentbob Raise  £0.95 £1.60 £3.90
howie09 Fold     
JayPeeH All-in  £4.31 £5.91 £0.00
barney_147 All-in  £4.31 £10.22 £0.00
This might sound like a silly question as there's only one hand beating me, but do we stack off here? The way the action's gone it got me really thinking if one (maybe both?) had aces and was looking for a re-raise in order to get them all in.

Comments

  • edited September 2009
    Please don't ever fold this. You have kings, you are only 50bbs deep and you're playing at a level where people will get it in with all sorts of rubbish. Just never fold kings preflop unless you are really, really deep or you know for a fact that these players will only get it in pre with aces.
  • edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Call or fold to 4 & 5 bet all ins?:
    Please don't ever fold this. You have kings, you are only 50bbs deep and you're playing at a level where people will get it in with all sorts of rubbish. Just never fold kings preflop unless you are really, really deep or you know for a fact that these players will only get it in pre with aces.
    Posted by stokesyph

    Pretty much this, even so, I`m closing my eyes and calling this.  Those limp reraises always get me worried
  • edited September 2009
    If anyone's watching the WSOP 09 coverage on pokertube, in one of the recent episodes someone raised with KK and Greg Raymer reraised with JJ. The guy with the KK folded and Greg looked at him and said "You're not folding KK or AA there are you?". The guy looked sick, lol. Commentator Norman quipped "What hands DO you play, pocket quads?!" lol.

  • edited September 2009
    Ill admit i have folded KK pre before, i was in a deepstack and i had 3 other playes all in.. My thinking was that yes one does have AA, but even if they dont im still more likely to LOSE this hand than win even if i was infront at that point. Im not sure of the actual odds but i think even with AA if there are 3 others all in you are more likely to lose the hand than win... I am calling with KK there, like others said its a low limit level where ppl play junk, and its only vs 2... if there was a 3rd in and i had a lot of money on the table/was a big trny then depending on players i probs fold. Just go to an odds calculator page and put in 4 legit all in hands with AA or KK one of them, i bet you will find you are less than a 50% chance to win
  • edited September 2009
    I too have folded kings before but only on the cash bubble on a DYM game. Three all ins and i'm already chip happy. Couldnt see the point in calling and risking most of my stack. One of the other three who went all in was bound to lose/be decimated resulting in an easy cash without the risk of that stray ace.
    Although in cash you couldn't get my chips in faster. I would be under the assumption both had big aces resulting in the liklihood of an ace dropping reducing but the more players in the pot the weaker kings are as a starting hand. But £4.00 into a fifteen quid pot certainly is worth the risk here. They only need to hold up 30% of the time to remain in profit on the move.
  • edited September 2009
    Thanks guys.

    After a little thought I did actually call it and took down the hand. One had AQ & the other AK.

    I think one of my biggest problems is that I over think things, particularly for the stake levels that I play (& I mean that with absolutely NO disrespect whatsoever).
  • edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Call or fold to 4 & 5 bet all ins?:
    Thanks guys. After a little thought I did actually call it and took down the hand. One had AQ & the other AK. I think one of my biggest problems is that I over think things, particularly for the stake levels that I play (& I mean that with absolutely  NO disrespect whatsoever).
    Posted by silentbob
    Glad to see that it held up for you, althought the result itself is of little importance here, it is useful to know the outcome from our point of view, mainly so we can learn as well. I see my prediction of 2 big aces was bang on as well!!!!!!!!!!!
    Just a quick thing to remember when playing lower stakes is that more people do tend to move all in with hands like AK/AQ preflop especially if there has been action in front just to take the pot down there and then as for some reason people do get surprised at seeing kings or aces. This is equally true at lower level sit'n'go's.
    Never really played much cash, too slow for my game but if i did, i could never fold them at 5p/10p but at £1.50/£3.00 levels have i the discipline???? Doubt it, perhaps thats why i dont play em!!!
  • edited September 2009
    I know why this got you thinking because i've been there before lol - I have to say I have folded KK pre flop to a raise a re-raise and an all in  (would have been me & three opponents) as i was sure one of them had aces. As it turned out they both had aces and the third opponent had QQ - Needless to say the QQ hit the 2 outer lol

    I think this is one of those questions that is purley based o nthe info you have on those players. If you know they are not particulary tight then you don't have to give the first bet credit for aces and the re-raise has an A k  - A Q (and sometimes at these levels even A - J) Range then you can put the money in and feel pretty sure your ahead the majority of the time. As poor as it sounds it's entirly possible these guys are doing this on JJ's and QQ's which you have dominated - On 5 - 10 knowing the range they will do this with i think i'm happy to shove it in
  • edited September 2009
    as dirty harry would say do you feel lucky??? you can analyse all you like but with AA or KK im getting them in every time and if they lose so be it, your gonna win in the long run. Remember as well that scared money doesnt win, if you are affraid of losing your stack you are probably on a too high a stakes table for your balance.
  • edited September 2009


    ok i can see your point you can often be less than 50% to win a multiway pot, but you seem to neglect the importance of how much is actually in the pot to begin with.  if your getting 2 or 3-1 on your money for instance then id take a 50/50 shot at it all day long,  folding in this situation just because losing is a possibility is never ever going to be profitable!
  • edited September 2009
    by the way that was for FLASHFLUSH
  • edited September 2009
    was sat behind a friend of mine in a live mtt 60 people, he had doubled up in first 1hr and was looking strong. 6 seated table, 4 of them were down to less than50% of starting stack.then it all kicked off. first to act went all in, followed by 2nd and 3rd(3rd being chip leader on the table), my friend had aces, and folded. i asked him later at the break why and like flash said earlier against 3 others he had more chance of losing than winning, i pointed out he could only go out to 1 person so surly he should of called. we still dont agree on subject now!!!
  • edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Call or fold to 4 & 5 bet all ins?:
    was sat behind a friend of mine in a live mtt 60 people, he had doubled up in first 1hr and was looking strong. 6 seated table, 4 of them were down to less than50% of starting stack.then it all kicked off. first to act went all in, followed by 2nd and 3rd(3rd being chip leader on the table), my friend had aces, and folded. i asked him later at the break why and like flash said earlier against 3 others he had more chance of losing than winning, i pointed out he could only go out to 1 person so surly he should of called. we still dont agree on subject now!!!
    Posted by pod1
    World series, yes, local pub, NEVER!

    Justsat in SNG.  3 all ins at early level, (50/100) cards turned over. 10's, kings and chip leader had 8's. Guess which one flopped the full house. Yep the 8's. It happens but could never fold aces in your pals position. Better to go out in a blaze of glory with your aces than go out when your gambling on a flush draw.

    I suppose it ultimately depends on whether he cashed or not, or whether he was left wondering what might have been?
  • edited September 2009
    I am happy to go all in pre-flop every time. The only time I even think about it is laddering for money in a tourmey.

    I even folded them once, to an all in, call, re-raise all-in when on the bubble. With that many in the hand and a cash finish at stake , you may not beleive me, but it was an almost insta-fold.
  • edited September 2009

    When you have KK, there is a 1 in 44 chance that someone has AA.

    I'll take those odds. I'm never folding at these stakes.
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