could i have extracted more

pod1

my notes said t spdbrkr Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £20.58 haidyboy Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £19.48   Your hole cards K K       gupysae Fold     salazar Fold     nevnewport Call  £0.20 £0.50 £19.82 pod1 Raise  £1.00 £1.50 £31.54 spdbrkr Fold     haidyboy Fold     nevnewport Call  £0.80 £2.30 £19.02 Flop    5 7 K       nevnewport Check     pod1 Bet  £0.60 £2.90 £30.94 nevnewport Call  £0.60 £3.50 £18.42 Turn    9       nevnewport Check     pod1 Bet  £1.60 £5.10 £29.34 nevnewport Call  £1.60 £6.70 £16.82 River    2       nevnewport Check     pod1 Bet  £1.20 £7.90 £28.14 nevnewport Call  £1.20 £9.10 £15.62 pod1 Show K K    nevnewport Muck J J    pod1 Win Three Kings £8.64 hey like to see all streets, but bail if bet too big.

thejudge10

maybe an overbet,but think u got the max

YOUNG_GUN

I dunno why was the flop bet so small? im assuming you didnt want to lose your customer? after he calls turn i would bet more on the river. doubt you could of got anymore from here but alot of the time you obviously try half potting it each street as people do call with worse then JJ

waynec

people quite often post "did I get enough on river", I believe its down to your read on the player. I bet to what I think each player will call which of course depends on how tight or loose they are. You bet what you felt he would call so in theory you got the max.

LOL_RAISE

well you bet under halfpot on every street with top set, so yeah im pretty sure you could get more money in there

N1CK

i reckon you could of got atleast another 15p on the river, do you always bet so small on the flop with the nuts?

pod1

i must admit nick i do! i dont want to lose him and can re look again on turn. dohhh does give me grief for it and  it is something i got to look at, then again the previous hand i posted (aq v all in) i have less of a dicession to make post flop. just trying to find a happy medium between too agg and too weak. ob not quite found it yet. cheers for imput    phil

Dudeskin8

Bet the same when you flop big and when you miss, you will more often miss so when you do you want the guy to fold but here you don't, that doesn't mean you bet a pathetic 1/4 pot bet as if he has a straight draw which is possible you are giving him unbeleivable odds then when he hits you can't blame anyone.

N1CK

In Response to Re: could i have extracted more:

i must admit nick i do! i dont want to lose him and can re look again on turn. dohhh does give me grief for it and  it is something i got to look at, then again the previous hand i posted (aq v all in) i have less of a dicession to make post flop. just trying to find a happy medium between too agg and too weak. ob not quite found it yet. cheers for imput    phil
Posted by pod1

against thinking players you need to balance your bet sizes coz obviously they will know what your up to but vs non thinkers  who just play their cards fit or fold you can bet exploitable, in this hand i agree its pretty hard for him to connect with this flop but there are hands he limps pf that you can get value from so i think betting bigger is best in the long run, dont be scared to lose him as hes calling more than he folds imo

by betting small your not putting any pressure on him were he can make a mistake, this guy just wants to get to showdown and you just make it easy for him ok your getting value but it could be better

CLIOKID

Bizarre to bet less on the river than you do on the turn.

And by bizarre I mean ridiculous.

waynec

In Response to Re: could i have extracted more:

i must admit nick i do! i dont want to lose him and can re look again on turn. dohhh does give me grief for it and  it is something i got to look at, then again the previous hand i posted (aq v all in) i have less of a dicession to make post flop. just trying to find a happy medium between too agg and too weak. ob not quite found it yet. cheers for imput    phil
Posted by pod1

Dont you think you should bet the same weather you hit big or miss by a mile as this could give your strentgh or weakness away?

pod1

ok clio let me explain the thinking behind what i did and then you can give me your pearls of wisdom. standard raise pre, after he flats i got to put him on a range, played him alot over last 3wks and i put him on either a decent ace or pp, yes he can any 2 or a monster, after the flop i dont want to lose him and he flats again, less likely to be any 2, still might be chasin his ace, more likely pp.after the raise on the turn and he flats again its down to 2 hands pp that hasnt hit or he is flatting a monster. back to the the title of the thread , if i pot it now, what is he going to call with!!! it isnt going to be ace high, if he has a pocket pair and missed he aint calling, if he has hit his set he is comming over the top. the bet on the river is a value bet nothing more!

N1CK

your thinking is ok as  in his calling range is very thin and betting smaller is good in that respect, but if you check the flop and bet bigger on turn and river i think you can get more value from his pocket pairs, also by checking flop it gives him the opportunity to improve other holdings, i think the 60p flop bet vs a passive player is a waste of time

pod1

thanks nick, i might not agree with everything you say or the way you say it, but you do make a lot of sense most of the time. can i ask what level you are playing at?

N1CK

its good not to agree with what people post on here but you have to say what you dont agree with and why, ask questions etc etc its good for everyone, if i post somthing that is wrong and someone points it out to me then it makes me a better player thats what these forums should be all about

CLIOKID

In Response to Re: could i have extracted more:

ok clio let me explain the thinking behind what i did and then you can give me your pearls of wisdom. standard raise pre, after he flats i got to put him on a range, played him alot over last 3wks and i put him on either a decent ace or pp, yes he can any 2 or a monster, after the flop i dont want to lose him and he flats again, less likely to be any 2, still might be chasin his ace, more likely pp.after the raise on the turn and he flats again its down to 2 hands pp that hasnt hit or he is flatting a monster. back to the the title of the thread , if i pot it now, what is he going to call with!!! it isnt going to be ace high, if he has a pocket pair and missed he aint calling, if he has hit his set he is comming over the top. the bet on the river is a value bet nothing more!
Posted by pod1

Sorry if I came across badly, didn't mean to be patronising or anything.

I just don't think betting so small is worthwhile. 

In the long run I feel you will get paid more by betting more. If he has air, he has air and will fold. But you will be letting strong hands that you have beat not pay you off fully. And when we flop such a big hand (which is rare), we want to try and make the pot as big as we possibly can.

Although.

If I was the villain here I'd probably read your river bet as weak and try to raise you off it. So if you bet small with then intention of trying to enduce a bluff - then I like it.

N1CK

In Response to Re: could i have extracted more:

In Response to Re: could i have extracted more : Sorry if I came across badly, didn't mean to be patronising or anything. I just don't think betting so small is worthwhile.  In the long run I feel you will get paid more by betting more. If he has air, he has air and will fold. But you will be letting strong hands that you have beat  not pay you off the maximum. Although. If I was my opponent I'd probably read your river bet as weak and try to raise you off it. So if you bet small with then intention of trying to enduce a bluff - then I like it.
Posted by CLIOKID

i think this is ok vs bad aggressive opponents but i think this opponent is more likely weak tight or loose passive so your profit will come from value betting so i agree with you that betting more is best

pod1

thanks guys for some constuctive crit  phil