Another do you bet for value, this time OOP

YOUNG_GUN

kayemel	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£6.52
YOUNG_GUN	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£7.80
	Your hole cards	Q A
APRIL49	Fold
FredZep	Raise		£0.24	£0.36	£6.64
crosscheck	Fold
mattless	Fold
kayemel	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Call		£0.16	£0.52	£7.64
Flop
		2 A 5
YOUNG_GUN	Bet		£0.39	£0.91	£7.25
FredZep	Call		£0.39	£1.30	£6.25
Turn
		K
YOUNG_GUN	Check
FredZep	Bet		£0.65	£1.95	£5.60
YOUNG_GUN	Call		£0.65	£2.60	£6.60
River
		10

yb

Whats the reason for donking the flop then checking turn?

YOUNG_GUN

I lead out 1 to protect my hand & find out where im at, also to gain a bit of control in the pot, the turn is very good card for me and the opponent often would bet if someone would check and they're in position. I personally think the only way im getting paid by a hand i beat is check calling turn and possibly river

Dudeskin8

With that hand on that board (dry as a bone) I'd fire all 3 streets and look to get it in asap. Utterly astonished you checked the turn.

LOL_RAISE

i dont get how you bet 'to gain control of the hand' then check the turn

its a super weird line to donk flop check call turn then donk river again  but he proably will call you with worse

YOUNG_GUN

I check river he shows AJ, i think i have missed value here on the river

I did plan to check call river as if i thought the only way i would get paid for worse aces at the time

alot to learn at cash obviously

Sky_Dave

I am going to chuck in a curve ball here just to see what the likes of yb and LOL_RAISE would do in the following scenario....

Let's say the hand plays the same as above but YOUNG_GUN bets the turn for say 90p. How do you proceed if Villain then raises? Stack sizes are awkward for that to be the case, so if it helps think of him shoving rather than raising. Does it put AQ to a test? If AQ is a call, how weak an ace does it have to be before you fold there?

LOL_RAISE

if villain shoves the turn after we lead again i think its a relatively easy fold, i wouldnt ever be concerned with villain exploiting us for folding AQ since its actually near the bottom of our value range for donking 2 streets here

id gets interesting if you have A2/A5 imo

TommyD

In answer to OP, amazingly your slighty unorthadox line shows clubs to me, therefore a busted flushdraw.  You've donkbet the flushing flop 'with clubs' and they stuck to your fingers on the turn call.  However the river presents a problem for your actual hand as AT is in the middle of the villians range.

As played I think I'm bet/folding the river.  Carry on with the story your telling, blag clubs and if he shoves (unless you think he can bluff shove a river a decent amount of time) get out of the way.  I expect to get call by a decent amount of worse bare aces and some two pair hands that beat us.  I think it's way better than C/C.

EDIT:  Just read up the thread (I never read the replies before my first reply on a thread in the Clinic).  Just seen the result.  Really start considering B/F river against C/C.  Both have their merits but too many times players go into the C/C comfort zone (sadly myself included at times in the past).

yb

Yeah I agree with lolraise that if we lead the turn it should definitely be with the intention of b/fing, people don't generally bluff at ace high boards that often and he's not value raising worse.

YOUNG_GUN

thanks tommy & yb/lol raise i will bear in mind in future, especially will b/f in future rather then c/c unless i have a good read