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Was this a stupid move, or an inspired call?

GREGHOGGGREGHOGG
edited September 2009 in Hold'em Poker Strategy
Hi,

This was in the big 110 deepstack tonight. I exited with 9 high. Thought id get this move through because i put him on a busted draw too. He actually hit 2nd pair on the river...
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
ljb1989 Small blind  150.00 150.00 8675.00
GREGHOGG Big blind  300.00 450.00 3380.00
  Your hole cards
  • 9
  • 2
     
Nutter5932 Fold     
dantb10 Fold     
themoose17 Fold     
ljb1989 Call  150.00 600.00 8525.00
GREGHOGG Check     
Flop
   
  • 4
  • 3
  • 10
     
ljb1989 Check     
GREGHOGG Check     
Turn
   
  • 7
     
ljb1989 Bet  300.00 900.00 8225.00
GREGHOGG Raise  900.00 1800.00 2480.00
ljb1989 Call  600.00 2400.00 7625.00
River
   
  • 8
     
ljb1989 Check     
GREGHOGG All-in  2480.00 4880.00 0.00
ljb1989 Call  2480.00 7360.00 5145.00
GREGHOGG Show
  • 9
  • 2
   
ljb1989 Show
  • 8
  • J
   
ljb1989 Win Pair of 8s 7360.00  12505.00
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Comments

  • scotty77scotty77
    edited September 2009
    With your stack so shallow I don't really see why you are rasing turn, as if he has a T/7 hes probably putting it AI here meaning you will have to call on a draw.

    As it happens he got lucky and hit 2nd pair.  Dunno if I'd call you here but I don't think LJB knows that you are a nit so you can't use your image here to get a bluff thru.

    I certainly don't think his call is horrible tho.


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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited September 2009
    oh and 10 hours later are you gonna shove on any river? what cards dont you shove on?
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Was this a stupid move, or an inspired call?:
    oh and 10 hours later are you gonna shove on any river? what cards dont you shove on?
    Posted by scotty77
    Hello

    Thanks for feedback m8,

    The raise on the turn was to represent strength and also because i had a feeling he didnt have anything. If he reraises me in, i believe i would have folded. (dont think i had the correct odds for my flush?)  He flats which gives me a chance to take the pot on the river. His flat i took as a sign of weakness. I would have prefered a fold obv.

    He kept on putting small bets  with not alot. I had played my usual passive self in the previous hands and he had taken my bb a few times uncontested so thought it was time for a little move.

    I am going to shove on any river that does not come a club, or a straightening card that i think he could have hit. I could have checked, but I thought he would fold. Believe me this kind of move is rare for me...

    I wasnt questioning his call. He made a great call, just wondering if my move was dodgy thats all. And i have to conclude that it was. Suppose i better stick with ABC.

    Greg

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  • mr_mbromr_mbro
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Was this a stupid move, or an inspired call?:
    In Response to Re: Was this a stupid move, or an inspired call? : Hello Thanks for feedback m8, The raise on the turn was to represent strength and also because i had a feeling he didnt have anything. If he reraises me in, i believe i would have folded. (dont think i had the correct odds for my flush?)  He flats which gives me a chance to take the pot on the river. His flat i took as a sign of weakness. I would have prefered a fold obv. He kept on putting small bets  with not alot. I had played my usual passive self in the previous hands and he had taken my bb a few times uncontested so thought it was time for a little move. I am going to shove on any river that does not come a club, or a straightening card that i think he could have hit. I could have checked, but I thought he would fold. Believe me this kind of move is rare for me... I wasnt questioning his call. He made a great call, just wondering if my move was dodgy thats all. And i have to conclude that it was. Suppose i better stick with ABC. Greg
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    Hi Gregg
    I have been in a similar situation and i think that it is becoming increasingly difficult for players like you and me to get ahead. I have noticed that there are far more questionable calls in the deepstacks. Maybe its time for tighter players to take up tiddlywinks or something.
    col
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited September 2009
    I think if you moved all in on the turn you would have taken it down. With him having 8k chips he was always going to call 600 more for his gutshot, that said if the guy doesn't hit the river you would of got it through.

    Perhaps in this case he thought you was representing the 7 so when he hits the 8 he assumed he was ahead and so called.
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  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited September 2009
    I think due to the check on the flop he bets out on the Turn. The 7 gives him the gut shot and he decides to bet out and represent a hit.

    Don't know your table image in this situation but your re-raise on that board is feeling like an aggressive attempt to push around with a pure bluff or a semi- bluff. I think he had already decided to try and take it away from you on the river.

    As there is no pre-flop raise im not putting you on A - 10 or K - 10. it's poss you have landed 2 pair from the BB but on a flushing board I think your putting out a bet on the flop if you have so i can all but dismiss that. As they have bet out on the turn because they think your hand is weak they are not going to want to fold to you every time you 3 bet them light on a raggy board. The 8 landing gives him showdown value on a board that to looks like you've missed. The 2 flush draws have missed and the straight that could be made with J 9 is not consistant with the rest of your play.

    you may have the ten but if you do it still looks odd. are you really re-raising with 3 - 10 ??? i don't think so. and if you have a decent kicker with the ten then where was your pre-flop raise. He may see the story your telling as inconsistant. If you hit the ten but light with the kicker then your betting the flop. If you hit the ten with a great kicker then you would have re-raised pre flop. If your drawing to either flush then your draw bust out and re-raising J 9 for a gutshot doesn't seem that plausable unless your bluffing.

    I'll be honest, i think he just read the situation for what it was - but that's just my opinion :)
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Was this a stupid move, or an inspired call?:
    I think due to the check on the flop he bets out on the Turn. The 7 gives him the gut shot and he decides to bet out and represent a hit. Don't know your table image in this situation but your re-raise on that board is feeling like an aggressive attempt to push around with a pure bluff or a semi- bluff. I think he had already decided to try and take it away from you on the river. As there is no pre-flop raise im not putting you on A - 10 or K - 10. it's poss you have landed 2 pair from the BB but on a flushing board I think your putting out a bet on the flop if you have so i can all but dismiss that. As they have bet out on the turn because they think your hand is weak they are not going to want to fold to you every time you 3 bet them light on a raggy board. The 8 landing gives him showdown value on a board that to looks like you've missed. The 2 flush draws have missed and the straight that could be made with J 9 is not consistant with the rest of your play. you may have the ten but if you do it still looks odd. are you really re-raising with 3 - 10 ??? i don't think so. and if you have a decent kicker with the ten then where was your pre-flop raise. He may see the story your telling as inconsistant. If you hit the ten but light with the kicker then your betting the flop. If you hit the ten with a great kicker then you would have re-raised pre flop. If your drawing to either flush then your draw bust out and re-raising J 9 for a gutshot doesn't seem that plausable unless your bluffing. I'll be honest, i think he just read the situation for what it was - but that's just my opinion :)
    Posted by ACESOVER8s
    Thanks, your explanation is perfect and v helpful, and like i said i believe it was a good read by him.
     
    It was a shock to be called though. Alot of the regular players i play in the 22 deepstack would have folded here, because they know my normal table image. And if i had a strong hand i would often be reraising on the turn in a similar manner. But as Ljb doesnt know my play, he read it as you have explained.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited September 2009
    I'm sure ljb must have played with you enough to know that your table image is quite sound usually? Anyway her turn call is horrible, maybe a misclick or her just playing tilty/bad.

    Problem is your not really repping a lot as AcesOvers8 said. Having said that it's definately more concievable for you to have slow played something like 33/44 or picked up a 2 pair/straight on the turn with 37/34/56 than you having a bluff here.

    Anyway, you made up for it tonight with that win :)
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