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KK v's?

MacacanMacacan
edited February 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Basically just  landed on the table, prob 2nd hand in, so no history. Standard raise utg, only to find i'm being kicked up the backside with a reraise. Not good so soon after joining the table.

I'm putting him on a big pair, no doubt A's poss AK, etc.  Is this a snap call, even though i'm possibly behind or should i be thinking about folding.

Cheers

Mac
xxxx Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £54.12
SANDFORD Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £22.94
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
Macacan Raise   £1.20 £1.65 £28.50
LADBROKE Fold        
SJspanky1 Fold        
valhalla Call   £1.20 £2.85 £40.26
xxxx Raise   £6.00 £8.85 £48.12
SANDFORD Fold        
Macacan ?        
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Comments

  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop
    edited February 2011
    Depends who it was against I guess but you have second best possible hand go for it..........
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Jurgen Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £75.41
    donkeyplop Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £30.77
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    fraad Fold        
    Jurgen Raise   £0.90 £1.20 £74.51
    donkeyplop Raise   £4.00 £5.20 £26.77
    Jurgen All-in   £74.51 £79.71 £0.00
    donkeyplop All-in   £26.77 £106.48 £0.00
    Jurgen Unmatched bet   £44.54 £61.94 £44.54
    Jurgen Show
    • K
    • A
    		     
    donkeyplop Show
    • K
    • K
    		     
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • 2
    • 8
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    River
       
    • 4
    		     
    donkeyplop Win Two Pairs, Kings and 8s £60.14   £60.14
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush
    edited February 2011
    Never folding just because you have been 3bet strong!! With the 3 bet so large he doesn't look like he is folding so I probs just jam. If you had more reads on the oppo then maybe a flat call just to check no 'A' on flop.

    I know this is 30nl, but if you look at the 100 and above levels, if you folded everytime you got 3bet you would never see a flop.
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited February 2011
    areeeeeeeen
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited February 2011
    tbh I just jam it in right now, flatting and evaluating the flop is either going to get you in trouble, or potentially not get you paid. Even if the flop comes down Q high, I'd be scared- because QQ makes a big part of his range. If it comes down A high, you're either beat or opponent will be scared off. All you're looking to see in reality is a flop with a king on it.

    Jam it in, you're getting called (obviously) by AA, probably getting called by QQ, and maybe getting calls from AK/JJ. That's good enough for me. Not to mention, you're ensuring matey boy who flats your opening raise isn't getting the price to come along and set/straight/flush mine with his small pair/suited cons, and totally spoil the party.

    tl;dr- wut beaneh said. we has kings, arrreeeeeeen
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited February 2011
    1 in 24 that someone has aces when you have kings. If they have aces, good luck to them.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited February 2011
    Snap shove win moniez.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    1 in 24 that someone has aces when you have kings. If they have aces, good luck to them.
    Posted by BigBluster
    1 in 204 isn't it?
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    In Response to Re: KK v's? : 1 in 204 isn't it?
    Posted by Seagull158
    The odds of having aces are 1:220. But there are 9 other players, so nine chances hence the 1:24.

    There used to be a poster on here called Merenovice who was a whizz with the numbers and calculated all of these for us! (he would do it properly i.e. from a pack of 50 cards having 2 kings out.....). I wonder if he's still around actually - great guy.


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  • jakallyjakally
    edited February 2011

    Shove it in, stand up, and when he calls and turns over AK, shout 'no ace' at the screen repeatedly.... always works!!

    (If he turns over QQ or JJ, adjust your shouting range to compensate).

    If you make a promise to yourself never to fold KK pre-flop < 150 BB's deep, you will make fewer mistakes than trying to second guess whether they have Aces, AK, or Queens, and start thinking about hero folds.

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  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    Shove it in, stand up, and when he calls and turns over AK, shout 'no ace' at the screen repeatedly.... always works!! (If he turns over QQ or JJ, adjust your shouting range to compensate). If you make a promise to yourself never to fold KK pre-flop < 150 BB's deep, you will make fewer mistakes than trying to second guess whether they have Aces, AK, or Queens, and start thinking about hero folds.
    Posted by jakally
    LOOOOOOOOOOOL!

    That's exactly what I was shouting with the hand I posted!
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    Shove it in, stand up, and when he calls and turns over AK, shout 'no ace' at the screen repeatedly.... always works!! (If he turns over QQ or JJ, adjust your shouting range to compensate). If you make a promise to yourself never to fold KK pre-flop < 150 BB's deep, you will make fewer mistakes than trying to second guess whether they have Aces, AK, or Queens, and start thinking about hero folds.
    Posted by jakally
    wooohoooo im not the only player who shouts this at he screen
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  • MacacanMacacan
    edited February 2011


    I felt a flat call here, would lead to bigger decisions on the flop.  No history on the guy, so felt that it was a defo shove, even though in my gut, i knew A's would show up.

    I know i shoudn't be thinking about a fold, not pre flop anyway. But but it does creep in, not for long though.

    Cheers for the feed back guys.

    xxxx Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £54.12
    SANDFORD Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £22.94
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    Macacan Raise   £1.20 £1.65 £28.50
    LADBROKE Fold        
    SJspanky1 Fold        
    valhalla Call   £1.20 £2.85 £40.26
    xxxx Raise   £6.00 £8.85 £48.12
    SANDFORD Fold        
    Macacan All-in   £28.50 £37.35 £0.00
    valhalla Fold        
    xxxx Call   £23.55 £60.90 £24.57
    xxxx Show
    • A
    • A
    		     
    Macacan Show
    • K
    • K
    		     
    Flop
       
    • K
    • Q
    • 9
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    Macacan Win Full House, Kings and 8s £59.10   £59.10
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited February 2011
    that's the second part of why you have to jam. Everyone talks about aces vs kings like 'omg, if I get my stack in and they have aces I've just lost everything'

    stick it in and bink the king, simples. But Jakally put it perfectly, if you try and fold kings preflop it's only ever gonna get you in trouble this deep. It's basically never, ever gonna be a good fold, even on the times they do have aces. Kings and aces should always be getting your stack in ASAP- other hands you can get off if the betting gets too hot.

    Nice hand! Bet the guy with aces was happy ^^
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush
    edited February 2011
    I've been playing poker for a few years now and only ever folded KK preflop once (and I was right I'd like to add). vs an unknown at 30nl I'm never folding pre.
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  • JIMMYMADJIMMYMAD
    edited February 2011
    Against an unknown never folding KK is good most of the time
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    Against an unknown never folding KK is good all of the time
    Posted by JIMMYMAD
    fixed for you
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    In Response to Re: KK v's? : fixed for you
    Posted by DeucesLive
    How often is flat calling a raise good with a house on the river ?
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    In Response to Re: KK v's? : The odds of having aces are 1:220. But there are 9 other players, so nine chances hence the 1:24. There used to be a poster on here called Merenovice who was a whizz with the numbers and calculated all of these for us! (he would do it properly i.e. from a pack of 50 cards having 2 kings out.....). I wonder if he's still around actually - great guy.
    Posted by BigBluster
    4/50*3/49 I thought, which is 1 in 204.166 approximately. or have I got this wrong?
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    In Response to Re: KK v's? : How often is flat calling a raise good with a house on the river ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    about never :)
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  • JIMMYMADJIMMYMAD
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    In Response to Re: KK v's? : fixed for you
    Posted by DeucesLive
    Thank You Sir 

    ;)
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  • MP33MP33
    edited February 2011
    I,m shoving - save making a possibly tough decision post flop - Nive hit tho
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  • N1CKN1CK
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: KK v's?:
    Never folding just because you have been 3bet strong!! With the 3 bet so large he doesn't look like he is folding so I probs just jam. If you had more reads on the oppo then maybe a flat call just to check no 'A' on flop. I know this is 30nl, but if you look at the 100 and above levels, if you folded everytime you got 3bet you would never see a flop.
    Posted by FlashFlush
    i think this is pretty bad, you dont want to give yourself or opponent the chance to 2nd guess on flop and i cant think of any logical explanation to do it, the only time i would ever flat a 3bet pf with KK is occasionally if a player in position was 3 betting the hell out of me
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