Continuation Bets??

Carlos_

Alright peeps, I watch the sky poker channel regularly and often hear them going on about 'C' bet this, and 'C' bet that but I’m wondering .......... is it getting a bit overrated, and are other players expecting it to happen as standard nowadays and move over the top of you knowing that its just a standard move and you probably have nothing?

Also, If for example your raising pre flop with AK but completely miss the flop (Witch by the way has happened to me no end of times in the past week), and the continuation bet just gets flat called, where do you go from there, Is it worth firing off another barrel with just ‘Ace’ high and slowly giving away your chip stack, or checking?

 

The obvious problem with checking is that its showing an obvious weakness ?

 

…………… Thoughts Please.

BigBluster

You mention having AK and missing the flop. Fire out exactly the same bet when you hit. Most people play the c-bet as some kind of bluff, then it is obvious that you've missed. Do the same thing when you hit.
But if you miss, depending on flop texture then go ahead and fire the 2nd barrel.

If he calls you're probably in trouble. If he has called your PF raise, your c-bet then your turn bet, it's probably time to give up!

But what do I know?

jakally

C-Betting is a wonderful subject you could spend a long time discussing, as it's one of the most interesting, and pivotal parts of a poker hand.

What happens on the flop, is often only a smallish percentage of the chips committed to a hand, but often defines what is going to happen through the other streets.

In simple terms :

- it is a mistake to C-Bet every single time you raise preflop, and miss the flop.

- it is a mistake to never C-Bet when you raise preflop, and miss the flop.

The main reason for this, is that it becomes exploitable by your opponents.

If you are doing something always, even a non-observant player will notice and you are giving them the chance to play perfectly against you.

However, as the PF raiser, you should be looking to C-Bet more often than not.

Things that may make it a good spot to C-Bet :

- when you have a tight image, and your bets will get some respect.

- when your opponent in the hand is more likely to fold when they are weak.

- when the board is less likely to hit an opponents hand.

- when you are in position.

- when a bet doesn't commit you to the hand in terms of pot size, versus your remaining stack, or your opponents stack. (particularly if your hand has no equity)

- when your hand has a good chance of improving (e.g. open ended straight draw / flush draw / 2 overcards to the board).

As with any bet, you should be trying to achieve one of the following :

- get a worse hand to call

- get a better hand to call

- set up a play on future streets

If your bet has little chance of doing one of these, then it's a bad bet.

Finally, try and make your bet sizing similar, whether you have it, or you don't. That way, you are keeping your opponents guessing.

djgrevo

I don't know where i saw this tip but i have started to use it when doing a c bet. If you decide pre that your plan is to raise and then follow the flop with a c bet no matter what, then make sure you don't just physically place the bet (in the bottom left) in lightning quick speed. Take your time in physically placing the bet (ie clicking the 3/4 pot button for example) Good players use the timing of actions/bets online as tells eg a really quick check often means the player has ticked the check/fold button and probably has missed. So a good player may sense from how quick the c bet has been placed that his opponent was going to place the c bet whatever happened, he may then come over the top with a raise (he assumes you missed the flop) and then we are in a really sticky situation.

silentbob

In Response to Re: Continuation Bets??:

As with any bet, you should be trying to achieve one of the following : - get a worse hand to call - get a better hand to call - set up a play on future streets If your bet has little chance of doing one of these, then it's a bad bet. 
Posted by jakally

I'm probably being a bit dumb here & missing something but why would you want a better hand to call here? Surely you want a better hand to fold?

jakally

In Response to Re: Continuation Bets??:

In Response to Re: Continuation Bets?? : I'm probably being a bit dumb here & missing something but why would you want a better hand to call here? Surely you want a better hand to fold?
Posted by silentbob

Yes, typo obv.... better hand to fold.

penguin7

Apart from the typo what an excellent reply by Jakally, not that I would have expected anything less from a player of his class ! It is such an important part of the game, this decision has to be made by somebody in every hand that goes to a flop. It is vital that you make that decision not based on whether you hit or not.The good players will soon pick up on it if you bet out every time you hit, or if you check/raise every time too. So you have to mix it up and keeping your bet sizes the same keep them guessing. If you dont Cbet at all when you miss, you are simply throwing away most of your preflop bets.Something I generally take as a sign of a beginner or weaker player is someone who check/calls after betting preflop.

unknown_username

A continuation bet or 1/2 pot 3/4 pot bet is a must even if you have missed the flop. If you bet the same every time you hit or miss it is very difficult for other players to narrow down your hand and this is the main reason I use a continuation bet.

The 2nd reason is more often than not your oppo hasn't hit the flop either and will decide to fold.

My earliest mistakes playing poker were checking on the flop and not re-raising pre-flop with premium hands.

DeucesLive

C-bets make life hell for opponents- sure, on occasions they might reraise. But that's where assessing the flop comes into play. If your opponents choose to reraise on a total airball, they know they're running the risk of you actually having hit it and stacking them. Not to mention many, many players don't even think that far ahead- if they have a hand they bet/call, if they don't they fold.

Board texture is very, very important. You have to look at what your opponent may have called preflop with, and whether it's likely they've hit- cards like 9-Q are very much in a callers range. Aces and kings are great to represent if you've raised preflop. If the board's very straighty/flushy, and you have zero part of it, it may be an idea to peel a card and re-evaluate- they could easily set up a check-raise there.

Keep playing more and more hands, evaluate spots each time, and most importantly- read your players. Jakally said it perfectly when he said not c-betting ever is a leak, and c-betting 100% of the time is a leak. Mix your play up, make it tough for people to know what you've got.

GaryQQQ

A high c-bet frequency is essential, especially in HU pots. I'm c-betting at least 75% of the time, quite often I'll be planning to check-raise when I don't c-bet.

The worst time to c-bet is when you're OOP in a multi-way pot, not a good idea when you miss unless you have an overpair to the board. The best time is HU in postion against a weak player who's a calling station pre-flop and tight post-flop, a situation that demands a 100% c-bet frequency.

As stated by others never c-betting when you miss is a massive leak.

thejudge10

 i like to c bet when ive been the original raiser,but also like the stop and go aswell.It itself can be a very strong play,espeailly when the turn can is some sort of connecter,looks at times as if u checked to get value,then close the hand on the turn,when it looks dangerous,of course gives your opponent 1 more street to hit there cards,or increases there outs for the river,this you have to bare in mind.But it also makes them think that uve hit the flop aswell,so really puts them in a spot,also can look as if ,your trying to stack them for the river.
dont know if this is correct play,but it works.

any reply to this play would be very much appreciated,as im still a novice and trying to improve my game all the time.

ratedRKO

like others have said i think if you cbet 100% of the time it is a mistake, and if you cbet only when you hit and check when you miss its also a mistake.

i think it depends on opponents, board textures etc, cbet when you have equity in a hand if there are real possibiltys your hand can improve, so building the pot is good. if an opponent calls alot pre but will fold alot on the flop if he misses then bet. position is really important.

cbettin in a multiway pot if you dont hit anything isnt a good idea - ie raise pre with ak flop is low & draw heavy i wouldnt cbet.

cbettin out of position is dangerous, i would say try and only play strong hands out of position so your decision to bet the flop is easier, in position and its checked to you then obviously there is case for firing a bet in even if you have nothing.

if you get in a habit of playing in position and cbet when you have equity in the hand i dont think you will go far wrong. thats what ive been told anyway lol

DeucesLive

c-bets out of position can actually be quite strong now. The danger is of course, you have no information yet of whether your opponent has hit the flop hard- if you have reads that narrow his preflop range down a lot (i.e, you know he only raises big picture cards, not low pairs and the board comes down 479) then you can c-bet oop, and hopefully take it down. The 'donk bet' is actually quite tough to play against, it used to be read as quite weak- but the growing trend is to bet out your big hands, so it's quite risky to then raise a donk bet since with preflop raises the pot will be getting pretty sizeable, a believable reraise commits a lot of chips.

It's virtually impossible to set down a perfect blueprint of when to c-bet and when not to- the best thing you can do is mix it up, evaluate how dangerous the board texture is and how aggressive your opponent is, what their preflop range is like, etc etc- take every hand as it comes. Just don't be predictable about it.